SWA: "3 years left of pilot shortage"
06-05-2023, 08:28 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 630
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
Yep. Sure did. And to where I stand, I'm 'past V1' in my situation/age/hiring matrix. UAL doesn't make financial sense, DAL would be a commute forever, so no... The decision was unemotional.
You're really showing how great your life is on this board by getting pi$$y over trivial BS. People with great lives generally don't. On the other token... what is it with you negative nancies and putting words in people's mouths? $300/TFP? Now you're talking out your a$$, and in any case, that would be the easiest NO ever. Don't give us the industry-leading benefits (LTD/STD)? I won't even bother reading the rest of any agreement before clicking NO. Don't address the work and training rules that reign in the insanity coming out of Dallas? That's a NO from me.
As I said before, I expect to be dazzled in this contract. And I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. A weak-kneed rep? Start the recall process, or vote them out.
But what I can't stand is the holier-than-thou peanut gallery putting words or numbers in people's mouths, spreading FUD about our union while they're negotiating for us, and spreading their general misery and dissatisfaction WITH THE UNION before so much as anything was even presented.
So.... if you don't like it, or have no stomach to back the union, there's no reason to be miserable. Plenty of other options.
You're really showing how great your life is on this board by getting pi$$y over trivial BS. People with great lives generally don't. On the other token... what is it with you negative nancies and putting words in people's mouths? $300/TFP? Now you're talking out your a$$, and in any case, that would be the easiest NO ever. Don't give us the industry-leading benefits (LTD/STD)? I won't even bother reading the rest of any agreement before clicking NO. Don't address the work and training rules that reign in the insanity coming out of Dallas? That's a NO from me.
As I said before, I expect to be dazzled in this contract. And I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. A weak-kneed rep? Start the recall process, or vote them out.
But what I can't stand is the holier-than-thou peanut gallery putting words or numbers in people's mouths, spreading FUD about our union while they're negotiating for us, and spreading their general misery and dissatisfaction WITH THE UNION before so much as anything was even presented.
So.... if you don't like it, or have no stomach to back the union, there's no reason to be miserable. Plenty of other options.
Got another shot of Kool aid coursing through your veins after upgrade, did ya RJ? Don't forget we've seen this show a few times already. And some of the same "players" are still pulling the SNAPA strings. I'll tell you what, if SNAPA brings us something truly worthy, I'll come back on here and figuratively eat my hat. If not, you're going to get a lot of "I told you so, Pollyanna." Guess we'll see.
06-05-2023, 08:30 AM
#52
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,612
Originally Posted by mulcher
Pot me kettle. While we agree on most things. We have already accepted two industry lagging items in our negotiations. How many more will be acceptable? Call me very skeptical of Casey and I have my reasons. I hope I am very wrong. But your hypocrisy says a lot. 38% like the FUD last time. The company could have tweaked the retirement a few percent and easily got the 51% solution. Imagine if guys like us didn't call SWApA out on that.
Jody is on record saying he will not bring something unratifiable to BOD, let alone to us. Do you have reason to doubt him? I don't. I have my issue with Casey's last email blast where he says it'll be up to SWAPA to avoid the strike. I hope I misunderstood him... I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that it'll be up to us to avoid it. No, it'll be up to the company.
Don't mistake me for a weak sister because I don't care for the negativity and trashing of our union.... until they give us a reason to trash them.
Maybe it's me, but as a meat and potatoes guy, am I gonna chuck the whole plate with all the food because my steak doesn't have enough parsley sprinkled around it? Nope. I'll take a bite and if I don't like it, I'll send it back. Conversely, if my steak is all parsley sprinkles, but a cut of shoe, it's also going back. But sitting there, talking trash before the steak is even presented to you is rather poor form.
06-05-2023, 08:47 AM
#53
Gets Weekend Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Posts: 3,612
Originally Posted by MudhammedCJ
Not to speak for Mulcher or anything, but ..
Got another shot of Kool aid coursing through your veins after upgrade, did ya RJ?
Got another shot of Kool aid coursing through your veins after upgrade, did ya RJ?
One saving grace, the wait for UOE has been a godsend.
Don't forget we've seen this show a few times already. And some of the same "players" are still pulling the SNAPA strings. I'll tell you what, if SNAPA brings us something truly worthy, I'll come back on here and figuratively eat my hat. If not, you're going to get a lot of "I told you so, Pollyanna." Guess we'll see.
How about keeping an eye on the prize and not get sidetracked with silly BS like the sprinkles. If the end product is inferior, send it back... And if it takes us walking out to get that superior steak, let's go. But let the union do what we sent them to do without undermining them.
06-05-2023, 09:49 AM
#54
gets time off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,163
Originally Posted by RJSAviator76
If you can't see the difference between this union and the 2015/2016 union, I can't help you...
Jody is on record saying he will not bring something unratifiable to BOD, let alone to us. Do you have reason to doubt him?YES and Ill leave it at that. We also heard platform and wont go below then that changed. Who was negotiating then? I don't. I have my issue with Casey's last email blast where he says it'll be up to SWAPA to avoid the strike. I hope I misunderstood him... I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that it'll be up to us to avoid it. No, it'll be up to the company. He has done other things that make me question him. Several actually. Thats the reason for my skepticism or SWApA.
.
Jody is on record saying he will not bring something unratifiable to BOD, let alone to us. Do you have reason to doubt him?YES and Ill leave it at that. We also heard platform and wont go below then that changed. Who was negotiating then? I don't. I have my issue with Casey's last email blast where he says it'll be up to SWAPA to avoid the strike. I hope I misunderstood him... I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that it'll be up to us to avoid it. No, it'll be up to the company. He has done other things that make me question him. Several actually. Thats the reason for my skepticism or SWApA.
.
06-05-2023, 09:58 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 72
Respectfully, I’ll submit that this bickering back and forth between ourselves is what the company wants and needs to achieve 50%+1. We’re getting close, try not to shoot the messenger before you read the message.
I am “cautiously optimistic” that our Union fully understands the market, what we bring to the table in terms of productivity, and what the membership fully expects this time around. Again, NB leading anything is not going to do it! Wide Body opportunities are very real things that our company will have to contend with. To ignore that, is to also ignore most of our growth plans, assuming we have them. We run the risk of remaining a revolving door while our staffing numbers never being predictable.
I am “cautiously optimistic” that our Union fully understands the market, what we bring to the table in terms of productivity, and what the membership fully expects this time around. Again, NB leading anything is not going to do it! Wide Body opportunities are very real things that our company will have to contend with. To ignore that, is to also ignore most of our growth plans, assuming we have them. We run the risk of remaining a revolving door while our staffing numbers never being predictable.
06-05-2023, 12:08 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Posts: 374
Originally Posted by Rseat
Again, NB leading anything is not going to do it! Wide Body opportunities are very real things that our company will have to contend with. To ignore that, is to also ignore most of our growth plans, assuming we have them. We run the risk of remaining a revolving door while our staffing numbers never being predictable.
This guy gets it.
10-15 years ago Southwest was in the market for 737 typed pilots. Today their market is for ATP rated pilots.
A pilot with an ATP hired at a major today can expect, within 6-18 months of being hired, 1 of 3 pay/qol options. 1) Widebody FO pay. 2) Narrowbody Captain pay. Or 3) Narrowbody FO pay with a high degree of seniority/qol.
Southwest can only offer 2 of the 3 options and it takes AT LEAST 5-7 years longer to get there, (or even longer) depending on the base location.
Just like the market dictated abandonment of the 737 type, it’s only a matter of time that Southwest will be forced to abandon the idea that all their pilots should be paid a narrowbody pay rate equivalent to that offered at their competitors where those pilots have ample opportunities to rapidly enhance their pay and/or qol situation.
06-05-2023, 01:18 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,256
Originally Posted by Stitches
Just like the market dictated abandonment of the 737 type, it’s only a matter of time that Southwest will be forced to abandon the idea that all their pilots should be paid a narrowbody pay rate equivalent to that offered at their competitors where those pilots have ample opportunities to rapidly enhance their pay and/or qol situation.
I guess, as “they” have always said, you really can’t get everything in one whack. We’ll just get it next time fellas!
06-05-2023, 04:15 PM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 2,030
Originally Posted by Lewbronski
That time will come when at least 50.1% of our pilots are willing to vote no for a TA that does not offer our pilots industry-leading career compensation, work rules, and benefits. Judging from some of the recent posts here, that time has not yet come.
I guess, as “they” have always said, you really can’t get everything in one whack. We’ll just get it next time fellas!
I guess, as “they” have always said, you really can’t get everything in one whack. We’ll just get it next time fellas!
I’ve been in this situation before when our contract lagged, attrition was off the bottom and the company had an attitude of invincibility and complacency.
Those companies no longer exist.
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