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Old 06-29-2023 | 04:23 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by Grishka
Although i am on board with this move. What do you suppose will be the course of action for SWAPA if we are not released? I imagine this would embolden SWA to slow mediated negotiations even more. Given the timelines you posted, could this have been a premature request? And if so when is the earliest another can be made?
IMO, it's really hard to say without being in the negotiating room with the NC if it was premature or not. Attempting to read the tea leaves, given the status updates we've received over the last several months and our continued willingness to "help pilots by helping the company" with agreements like the LRF deal we just inked, my impression is that we are nowhere near an impasse. However, that may not, in reality, be the case if the NC and SWAPA leadership have genuine reason to believe we are at a true impasse. The request for release from mediation indicates that an impasse may truly exist.

If the NMB denies the request for a proffer of arbitration, it may embolden the company to slow things down. However, it seems like they're awfully emboldened already, anyway. How much worse off would we be if the company slowed things down even more? Any more slowing and they could start to skate onto legal thin ice in terms of bad faith bargaining.

But, as I've stated before, neither the NMB nor the company can make mediation go on forever. The company can only slow things down for so long. The NMB can only slow things down for so long. As long as we are playing the RLA game as it needs to be played, and we're all staying the legal course, eventually the company will have to move toward our position or face a release (and all that a release entails).

As far as when is the earliest another request can be made goes, that's entirely up to SWAPA. The RLA doesn't specify any requirement that a request for release be made at all, though it seems like it has become the custom. This is what the text of the RLA says about the process from after mediation is requested through the conclusion of mediation:
In either event the said Board shall promptly put itself in communication with the parties to such controversy, and shall use its best efforts, by mediation, to bring them to agreement. If such efforts to bring about an amicable settlement through mediation shall be unsuccessful, the said Board shall at once endeavor as its final required action (except as provided in paragraph third of this section and in section 160 of this title) to induce the parties to submit their controversy to arbitration, in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

Last edited by Lewbronski; 06-29-2023 at 04:57 PM.
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Old 06-29-2023 | 05:33 PM
  #12  
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Originally Posted by Lewbronski
IMO, it's really hard to say without being in the negotiating room with the NC if it was premature or not. Attempting to read the tea leaves, given the status updates we've received over the last several months and our continued willingness to "help pilots by helping the company" with agreements like the LRF deal we just inked, my impression is that we are nowhere near an impasse. However, that may not, in reality, be the case if the NC and SWAPA leadership have genuine reason to believe we are at a true impasse. The request for release from mediation indicates that an impasse may truly exist.

If the NMB denies the request for a proffer of arbitration, it may embolden the company to slow things down. However, it seems like they're awfully emboldened already, anyway. How much worse off would we be if the company slowed things down even more? Any more slowing and they could start to skate onto legal thin ice in terms of bad faith bargaining.

But, as I've stated before, neither the NMB nor the company can make mediation go on forever. The company can only slow things down for so long. The NMB can only slow things down for so long. As long as we are playing the RLA game as it needs to be played, and we're all staying the legal course, eventually the company will have to move toward our position or face a release (and all that a release entails).

As far as when is the earliest another request can be made goes, that's entirely up to SWAPA. The RLA doesn't specify any requirement that a request for release be made at all, though it seems like it has become the custom. This is what the text of the RLA says about the process from after mediation is requested through the conclusion of mediation:
SW is not very popular amongst Congress etc right now also so that may be in our favor
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Old 06-29-2023 | 06:31 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by hoover
SW is not very popular amongst Congress etc right now also so that may be in our favor
This is actually A VERY GOOD OBSERVATION! It is very relevant.---Kudos.
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Old 06-29-2023 | 06:51 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by javaguy141
This is actually A VERY GOOD OBSERVATION! It is very relevant.---Kudos.
I would think the opposite, it could work in our favor and against the company.
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Old 06-29-2023 | 06:57 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Vettekid
I would think the opposite, it could work in our favor and against the company.
also, the December meltdown showed that a job action won’t rock the economy and I’m sure the GAC is talking to congress about targeted actions that will isolate specific bases, as CM has mentioned.
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Old 06-29-2023 | 07:00 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by Lewbronski
IMO, it's really hard to say without being in the negotiating room with the NC if it was premature or not. Attempting to read the tea leaves, given the status updates we've received over the last several months and our continued willingness to "help pilots by helping the company" with agreements like the LRF deal we just inked, my impression is that we are nowhere near an impasse. However, that may not, in reality, be the case if the NC and SWAPA leadership have genuine reason to believe we are at a true impasse. The request for release from mediation indicates that an impasse may truly exist.

If the NMB denies the request for a proffer of arbitration, it may embolden the company to slow things down. However, it seems like they're awfully emboldened already, anyway. How much worse off would we be if the company slowed things down even more? Any more slowing and they could start to skate onto legal thin ice in terms of bad faith bargaining.

But, as I've stated before, neither the NMB nor the company can make mediation go on forever. The company can only slow things down for so long. The NMB can only slow things down for so long. As long as we are playing the RLA game as it needs to be played, and we're all staying the legal course, eventually the company will have to move toward our position or face a release (and all that a release entails).

As far as when is the earliest another request can be made goes, that's entirely up to SWAPA. The RLA doesn't specify any requirement that a request for release be made at all, though it seems like it has become the custom. This is what the text of the RLA says about the process from after mediation is requested through the conclusion of mediation:

With last swapa email it seems like the company is daring swapa to take action. they’re either very inept or think they have some kind of plan.
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Old 06-29-2023 | 10:06 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Grumpyaviator
With last swapa email it seems like the company is daring swapa to take action. they’re either very inept or think they have some kind of plan.
Some execs probably have a pool going. What date the union files, etc. Standby for crap offer.
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Old 06-29-2023 | 11:37 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by at6d
Some execs probably have a pool going. What date the union files, etc. Standby for crap offer.
There will absolutely be further attempts to "negotiate in public" by the company. The strength of which(size of the offer), will be determined by how quickly, and whether or not we are released/offered arbitration.

Stay focused.
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Old 06-30-2023 | 03:58 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by Lewbronski
As per SWAPA email a few minutes ago.
TOF says CK laughed when advised about the request for release.
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Old 06-30-2023 | 04:39 AM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by journeybird
TOF says CK laughed when advised about the request for release.
That's exactly what I did when I saw his proposed pay rates last week!
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