southwest files to fly more international
06-01-2025 | 07:54 AM
#71
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Joined: Aug 2021
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You said the key word. "Market development." Buying a bunch of widebodies and putting in gold plated toilets with half the airplane having mini condo's is not going to get SWA anywhere. The sucking sound of money going out the door would be staggering. Their have been many airlines like Midwest, who IMO had the best domestic product ever in scheduled service, went out of business and countless other companies that had incredible hard products but couldn't generate enough revenues to cover the cost's. To be fair, none of the airlines had a customer base as big as SWA and the network to go with it. It's a good foundation to start from. The most profitable segment of US travel right now is long haul international. No airline is making money domestically in all four quarters. Yields are strong in that segment. DAL, UAL and AAL will not sit by and let SWA slowly eat away at it's most profitable segment. They will fight SWA all the way and the have the experience and infrastructure to do it. Market development is key. They already figured out how to kill SWA the LCC domestically. Don't think for one second they'll try to do it on the international front.
06-01-2025 | 08:15 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,587
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So what exactly does this do for us? To my understanding it's not a true codeshare... yet, and I don't think you can even book these itineraries through SWA.com...? Is it trying to capture the reverse side of the market? That is, people booking through China Airlines and Iceland Air sites?
I always thought the China 777 or 350 sitting at ONT was a weird choice. They have to find enough OE traffic to make that work.
If it bring us extra traffic from high yield stations like ONT, great. I highly doubt this one will ever exceed any PDEW limits, but if it does, even better.
06-01-2025 | 08:28 AM
#73
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 7,578
Likes: 286
From: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Eventually they will be booked on Southwest dot com as well. They said next year for Iceland Air. I imagine China as well.
I always thought the China 777 or 350 sitting at ONT was a weird choice. They have to find enough OE traffic to make that work.
If it bring us extra traffic from high yield stations like ONT, great. I highly doubt this one will ever exceed any PDEW limits, but if it does, even better.
I always thought the China 777 or 350 sitting at ONT was a weird choice. They have to find enough OE traffic to make that work.
If it bring us extra traffic from high yield stations like ONT, great. I highly doubt this one will ever exceed any PDEW limits, but if it does, even better.
06-01-2025 | 08:33 AM
#74
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Joined: Aug 2021
Posts: 82
Likes: 26
Eventually they will be booked on Southwest dot com as well. They said next year for Iceland Air. I imagine China as well.
I always thought the China 777 or 350 sitting at ONT was a weird choice. They have to find enough OE traffic to make that work.
If it bring us extra traffic from high yield stations like ONT, great. I highly doubt this one will ever exceed any PDEW limits, but if it does, even better.
I always thought the China 777 or 350 sitting at ONT was a weird choice. They have to find enough OE traffic to make that work.
If it bring us extra traffic from high yield stations like ONT, great. I highly doubt this one will ever exceed any PDEW limits, but if it does, even better.
06-01-2025 | 09:14 AM
#75
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 651
Likes: 128
From: 737CA
At some point these will turn into Code Shares. Until SWA turns on assign seating/ELR, their is no benefit for any of these partnerships to expand until then. They are definitely testing the waters for sure with no risk. Perfect scenario. There is another 48 or so on the list. Never thought I would be reading section 1 closely.
06-01-2025 | 09:18 AM
#76
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Joined: Apr 2013
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Likes: 429
If this does end up working out, I am sure they would love to start heading in that direction. Watterson is a big fan of expanding the brand through partnerships. SWA is a big ship with a tiny rudder, though.
Like Ref mentioned, you can't just buy a bunch of 787s and start selling flights to markets where you have zero customers. This is definitely a precursor to any expansion in that arena. Time will tell if it works out.
06-01-2025 | 10:19 AM
#77
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Joined: Aug 2015
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Likes: 73
Far International Pacific Region PDEW limit is 875 per day. So we're never going to exceed that with just an interline agreement with CI. Hopefully we can grab some of Delta Air Lines traffic and start expanding our customer base.
The Atlantic region is much more interesting. PDEW limit is 375. Based on a graphic I'm looking at on SWAPA and the definition of Atlantic region in the contract, the Atlantic region includes the Middle East. So one more European partner and one ME3 partner (which we will need if we are going to met customers where they are at per BJ) and we'd have a good shot at exceeding that PDEW limitation, plus we have aircraft that can service some of the Atlantic region destinations.
06-01-2025 | 10:23 AM
#78
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,683
Likes: 317
Like Zap said, I highly doubt this is indicative of anything other than having the ability to do something later. If you look at the vector the company has been on since 2013, they will eventually start serving destinations north and south of what they are doing now as well as have the ability to take over flying east and west that is part of codeshare/partnerships that exceeds pilot CBA limits.
In other words...nothing to see here. For now.
In other words...nothing to see here. For now.
06-01-2025 | 10:37 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 4,587
Likes: 429
I wouldn't be surprised if they quietly walked away from most of that flying with the united agreement.
06-01-2025 | 11:52 AM
#80
weekends off? Nope...
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,433
Likes: 165
Based on the current schedule, China Airlines total seats per day to United States is average of 1625 (some flights are not daily, so I averaged). Can't show my work to post here but ChatGPT will give you the info pretty easily.
Far International Pacific Region PDEW limit is 875 per day. So we're never going to exceed that with just an interline agreement with CI. Hopefully we can grab some of Delta Air Lines traffic and start expanding our customer base.
The Atlantic region is much more interesting. PDEW limit is 375. Based on a graphic I'm looking at on SWAPA and the definition of Atlantic region in the contract, the Atlantic region includes the Middle East. So one more European partner and one ME3 partner (which we will need if we are going to met customers where they are at per BJ) and we'd have a good shot at exceeding that PDEW limitation, plus we have aircraft that can service some of the Atlantic region destinations.
Far International Pacific Region PDEW limit is 875 per day. So we're never going to exceed that with just an interline agreement with CI. Hopefully we can grab some of Delta Air Lines traffic and start expanding our customer base.
The Atlantic region is much more interesting. PDEW limit is 375. Based on a graphic I'm looking at on SWAPA and the definition of Atlantic region in the contract, the Atlantic region includes the Middle East. So one more European partner and one ME3 partner (which we will need if we are going to met customers where they are at per BJ) and we'd have a good shot at exceeding that PDEW limitation, plus we have aircraft that can service some of the Atlantic region destinations.
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