Frank Rizzo

ATN MEC killed the first deal....Gary and SWAPA showed their horns...I voted no for #2.

It's the same over here, 90% of the spineless jerk offs that voted in favor will never admit it.

That's one of the reasons I wanted arbitration from the start. I didn't trust this pilot group to handle a decision involving my future seniority and QOL. Turns out I was right. That doesn't happen very often.

Frank Rizzo

As an aside, the same aforementioned jerk offs are now suing ALPA over the decision to reject the first deal. Their case is going nowhere. At least I'll get a little satisfaction knowing they each pi$$ed a few grand away. Dumbasses.

Frank Rizzo

Im a little curious why you chose to vote no. Care to elaborate?

shoelu

You're expectations should have been NEVER going to arbitration since an alternative method of gaining an integrated seniority list was exactly what all parties agreed to in the process agreement.


WHEREAS, Section 13(b) of Allegheny-Mohawk authorizes the Parties to utilize an agreed-upon alternative method to resolve the seniority integration issues; and

WHEREAS, Southwest Airlines Pilots Association (“SWAPA”), the Air Line Pilots Association (“ALPA”), Southwest and AirTran desire to utilize an alternative process as set forth in this Agreement for the creation of an Integrated Master Seniority List;

tanker

It has nothing to do with an understanding doctor, if the procedure is not preventative it is covered under the SWA Regular Plan. In my case my Dad died of colon cancer, so I have a family history that caused the first to be diagnostic. Since then they have been done to keep track of polyps that were discovered. In my wife's case she is diagnosed with IBS, so colos are diagnostic.

4th Level

Probably for the same reasons I did. I was against the acquisition from the start, and I didn't want to streamline the process for Unka Gary anymore than was already happening. It was going to happen, but not with my endorsement.

Frank Rizzo

So using your logic, "alternate method" allows management to use fraud in the inducement (threats of unemployment) to gain an unfair advantage in negotiations?

OrionTanker

Rizzo - I voted not because I am a line pilot, period. My loyalties are to the line pilot. No one else. I knew my union or your past union were not going to help anyone except the union workers, i.e. not the line pilot. That is the way of the past and future.

Most line pilots are good solid dudes who just fly from point A to point B. Get the paycheck and kiss their wives/girlfriends when they get home.

You can hate the union, but do not hate the guys on the forums. They are more than likely a line pilot. Most union reps and execs shy away from forums as this tarnishes their reputation. Just like a politician.

You should actually be proud of your ex-union when you voted to strike. You had unity. SWAPA has no unity.

Smokey23

Couple of points to ponder:

1)Ask virtually any original SWA pilot if this was a merger of equals, they will say heck no! Ask virtually any former ATN pilot if this was a merger of equals, they will say heck yes! All of the angst on both sides originates from this fundamental difference of views.

2)With every passing day, it is becoming ever more apparent that the #1 reason for SWA acquiring ATN was as a convenient means to eliminate a pesky competitor. Sucks, but it's just how the business evolves sometimes. Gaining access to the ATL was just icing on the cake. It seems clear now that SWA views the ATL as primarily an O&D market and not a hub, and is sizing the operation there accordingly (safe to say Delta is defending the motherland better than United has done in DEN....credit where credit is due, Richard.) Consider also that after all the dust has now settled, ATN pilots have only brought over one-third of "their" aircraft (and Captain's seats), yet ALL their pilots continue to be employed by SWA. That is definitely not nothing, but gets precious little acknowledgement from most ATN pilots. Any of you still think arbitration would have been a panacea with that fact now in the mixture? It would have come to light before arbitration was complete; no way Gary could have put off the deal with Delta for that long. It is also further evidence to me that Gary wasn't bluffing when he threatened to not integrate ATN with SWA. I believe he wanted ATN gone and was going to accomplish it the easy way (integration), or if need be, the much less pleasant way (fragmentation). 80% of your pilots voted in the best interests of their careers when their true lack of leverage came to light....and yep, they pretty much had a gun to their heads. 80% of our pilots also voted in what they thought was the best interests of their careers....and probably 50% of them now feel like chumps for not going to arbitration in light of what happened to the 717s.

3)Frank and Whack, I'm sorry that your cheese has been moved so much. I really am. But in the new consolidated airline landscape, it is a completely unrealistic assumption that ATN could have remained a stand-alone carrier. That's the perils of being a smaller fish in the big industry pond. ATN succeeded in the years leading up to the SWA purchase largely due to Delta's "lost decade" of big losses, bankruptcy, and merger. IOW, they were too distracted with bigger issues to put up an effective fight against ATN in the ATL. How do you think a stand-alone ATN would be holding up now to the new Delta? Be honest...
Maybe you would have fared better being acquired by an airline other than SWA....maybe not. JetBlue, Alaska, Hawaiian, Spirit, and Virgin are all likely in the same boat: most of them will not survive the next five years in their present state, IMHO. Heck, SWA might not even survive as a stand-alone. Never say never...

4)I wish the deal had never happened, either. It has transformed the airline in many ways that are not for the better. Senior management absolutely owns ALL the results, from the recent impressive financials to the crappy operational performance and withering employee relations. Hopefully over time it will prove to be a good strategic move....even though to a lot of us line-swine it sure feels like a tactical failure on several fronts right now.

Here's to just putting it all behind us now and hoping for better times to come. One LUV, baby!

4th Level

Great post Smokey with one big notable exception;

The dust in no way has settled, and the pain has yet to be felt on many fronts. It's tough to "put it behind you" when it hasn't happened yet.