SL 10 Grievance
10-29-2014, 06:39 AM
#112
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by Boogie Nights
Why stir up the pot?
I know now that senior SWA FO's have nothing to complain about.
I would love to be a senior bypassed FO with Quality of life and captain pay. This would imply the most senior FO can make as much as the most senior Captain. WOW.
Funny how SWA needed to keep the AT pilots at AT pay for four years so they could pay for our training from 717 to 737s, and then sublet them to Delta. I guess they needed the money to pay senior FO's captain pay.
So if they take a snap shot 1 Jan 2015 does that mean former AT Capts, now SWA senior FO's who could have held the captain seat on that date should get captain pay too right. Especially if they have been putting gear up and down at SWA. I am sure SWAPA will protect the rights of all its members.
Whack I hope you computer survives your new frustrations. I can't do it, but I really am beginning to see how you can want to give up.
SWA disaffects 30% of its new guys only to throw money at its 5%ers.
I keep trying to remember its business. It is all the slogans in the hallway at ops telling me how to behave and work and enjoy life when they don't show AT guys the same respect. It would be an interesting world if everyone had perfect integrity. We are all flawed.
Serenity now, SERENITY NOW!!!
Fly safe and keep em moving
I know now that senior SWA FO's have nothing to complain about.
I would love to be a senior bypassed FO with Quality of life and captain pay. This would imply the most senior FO can make as much as the most senior Captain. WOW.
Funny how SWA needed to keep the AT pilots at AT pay for four years so they could pay for our training from 717 to 737s, and then sublet them to Delta. I guess they needed the money to pay senior FO's captain pay.
So if they take a snap shot 1 Jan 2015 does that mean former AT Capts, now SWA senior FO's who could have held the captain seat on that date should get captain pay too right. Especially if they have been putting gear up and down at SWA. I am sure SWAPA will protect the rights of all its members.
Whack I hope you computer survives your new frustrations. I can't do it, but I really am beginning to see how you can want to give up.
SWA disaffects 30% of its new guys only to throw money at its 5%ers.
I keep trying to remember its business. It is all the slogans in the hallway at ops telling me how to behave and work and enjoy life when they don't show AT guys the same respect. It would be an interesting world if everyone had perfect integrity. We are all flawed.
Serenity now, SERENITY NOW!!!
Fly safe and keep em moving
Just sayin!
10-29-2014, 09:55 AM
#113
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 666
Actually, in order to get out of the 717 leases, SWA had to pay for bringing every time limited part back to 50% of useful life on each 717, also new paint and new interiors to DAL specs. Approx cost per 717 is in the 2.7-3.2 million range that SWA has to spend to give them back to Boeing so DAL can lease them from Boeing at 43% of the annual lease cost that SWA was paying Boeing....... Those are the facts. 2013 end of year report.
Just sayin!
Just sayin!
Just sayin!
(This issue has been beat to death...can we all just conclude it was a win-win for SWA and Delta?)
10-29-2014, 12:37 PM
#114
Sho me da money!
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: B25, Left
Posts: 947
Originally Posted by Smokey23
Verses introducing a second narrow-body fleet type to a business model that has long been built upon the flexibility and cost savings of a single type. Sometimes it costs money upfront to save a boatload in the out-years. There's a glut of cheap used 737-700s on the world market right now that SWA is taking advantage of. At this point, I would rather continue to enjoy the efficiencies of a single type, while ensuring any increases in FOCASM the company may accept are the result of more money going into my paycheck....instead of more money going into a new training program.
Just sayin!
(This issue has been beat to death...can we all just conclude it was a win-win for SWA and Delta?)
Just sayin!
(This issue has been beat to death...can we all just conclude it was a win-win for SWA and Delta?)
What would be the fun in that?
11-02-2014, 04:36 PM
#115
On Reserve
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 23
So from an outside perspective, what I'm hearing is this:
SWA pilots feel that the AT guys are ungrateful for them rescuing their company and giving them a pay raise.
AT pilots feel the pay raise is offset by lost seniority/downgrade, and the proposed SLI is not fair.
There are so many arguments on many different forums- what I've determined is that the truth typically lies somewhere in between.
SWA pilots feel that the AT guys are ungrateful for them rescuing their company and giving them a pay raise.
AT pilots feel the pay raise is offset by lost seniority/downgrade, and the proposed SLI is not fair.
There are so many arguments on many different forums- what I've determined is that the truth typically lies somewhere in between.
11-02-2014, 06:20 PM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by shoelsch
So from an outside perspective, what I'm hearing is this:
SWA pilots feel that the AT guys are ungrateful for them rescuing their company and giving them a pay raise.
.
SWA pilots feel that the AT guys are ungrateful for them rescuing their company and giving them a pay raise.
.
No AirTran Capt is getting a raise until they upgrade. Many will be forced to retire before they can.
Whatever raise an FO gets will be partially offset by insanely high insurance costs (my deductable at AirTran was zero) loss of paid airport parking, no company paid medicals, loss of B-fund retirement, forced commuting expenses (no commuteable trips at SW). The cumulative effect is significant. It's not the windfall they'd have you believe it is.
But they have a culture, so that's nice I guess...
Last edited by Frank Rizzo; 11-02-2014 at 06:34 PM.
11-02-2014, 06:42 PM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: 717 Capt.
Posts: 248
Originally Posted by cencal83406
Considering they didn't negotiate and end up with an arbitrated list, it seems unfair to me.
I'm sure most SWA pilots would agree that they wanted arbitration, a fair solution for everyone.
I'm sure most SWA pilots would agree that they wanted arbitration, a fair solution for everyone.
SWAPA obviously did not want arbitration. They acted in collusion with management to make absolutely sure that didn't happen. The rally at HQ is all the proof anyone needs.
11-02-2014, 08:07 PM
#119
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by shoelsch
So from an outside perspective, what I'm hearing is this:
SWA pilots feel that the AT guys are ungrateful for them rescuing their company and giving them a pay raise.
AT pilots feel the pay raise is offset by lost seniority/downgrade, and the proposed SLI is not fair.
There are so many arguments on many different forums- what I've determined is that the truth typically lies somewhere in between.
SWA pilots feel that the AT guys are ungrateful for them rescuing their company and giving them a pay raise.
AT pilots feel the pay raise is offset by lost seniority/downgrade, and the proposed SLI is not fair.
There are so many arguments on many different forums- what I've determined is that the truth typically lies somewhere in between.
11-02-2014, 08:16 PM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B737 Captain
Posts: 323
Originally Posted by Frank Rizzo
I don't know how someone "rescues" a profitable, growing major airline...but, whatever.
No AirTran Capt is getting a raise until they upgrade FALSE. Many will be forced to retire before they can Some, yes. But many?.
Whatever raise an FO gets will be partially offset by insanely high insurance costs (my deductable at AirTran was zero) So was mine until last year. Thank the current government loss of paid airport parking True, no company paid medicals Flase, loss of B-fund retirement True, but a 1 for 1 401k match, forced commuting expenses (no commuteable trips at SW) False. The cumulative effect is significant. It's not the windfall they'd have you believe it is. So you finally admit it is a windfall.
But they have a culture, so that's nice I guess...
No AirTran Capt is getting a raise until they upgrade FALSE. Many will be forced to retire before they can Some, yes. But many?.
Whatever raise an FO gets will be partially offset by insanely high insurance costs (my deductable at AirTran was zero) So was mine until last year. Thank the current government loss of paid airport parking True, no company paid medicals Flase, loss of B-fund retirement True, but a 1 for 1 401k match, forced commuting expenses (no commuteable trips at SW) False. The cumulative effect is significant. It's not the windfall they'd have you believe it is. So you finally admit it is a windfall.
But they have a culture, so that's nice I guess...
..............
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