Spirit Training
 

I am curious how Spirit training would be for a 135 cargo pilot using a basic auto pilot and Garmin 430/530? Any insight will help.

😂

Sorry man, couldn’t resist. My advice, not worth the risk. This program not set up for guys without prior 121 and automation.

If you don’t mind me asking what background did you have prior to your first 121 job?


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If you don’t mind me asking prior to being in 121 what was your pilot position?

I don't think he is saying that jumping to any 121 is a bad idea, just this one. The training program here is not designed for those without prior 121 experience. You literally do 4 sims and then a full pic check/type ride. Failures here currently are at an all time high. A pink slip is not worth it for this garbage company.

I was just wondering what is pre 121 experience was. I don’t think all 121s are garbage yet I would prefer to skip regionals but obviously may not.


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I understand 121 carries are different I was just curious if there have been other 135 pilots go through Spirit and how the training was for them. I’ve been hired by another 121 just weighing my options.

its a self study style course where you have to learn both seats and checkride in the left seat, followed by ioe all in the right seat. plenty of 135 guys here but they were at a disadvatage compared to 121 experienced crews, especially compared to e170/175 crews

Whether or not spirit is your final career destination (LOLZ show me the money Bob) you really may be better off going through a full training course at another 121 outfit first. You'll get better first year pay at many regionals and be better prepared to either come to spirit or any other major carrier after that year. $35k-ish at Spirit vs. $50k at a regional, plus more comprehensive training before hitting the line... A bunch of my friends passed on Spirit and went to regionals instead because of this and it's really hard to find fault in their reasoning. They'll be flying for United/Delta/SWA/FedEx/UPS as quickly as anyone coming from Spirit and they'll make $20-$30k more along the way during their first couple of years. Some started a year ago and will be logging PIC time making CA pay before Spirit pilots see a new contract.

That said, if you study hard before even showing up for training, yea you can get through it with no prior 121 experience. The odds are against you and if your first ever V1 cut is when they show it to you in the sim before your checkride, then you're going to need to be well prepared to do that pilot shxt before you get here. Feeling lucky?

Thanks for the insight it does seem like a regional is the safer option. I have been flying as a CA for the past 2 years and am familiar with PIC checkrides. Just know 121 is much different than 135 esp. the automation etc.

So is it possible that Scaring Away Potential Applicants is the new, company baited Job Action, and we are once again falling into their trap?

I mean, they don't *really* want to reach a deal this week, they're just demonstrating good faith until they can hit us with another justifiable stall. There's been a lot of this recently, especially by first time posters like this.

I say be careful.

And now I'll remove my tin foil hat.

I noticed you went from 1900, 145, then 320 airframes how did you find the transition? I’m a metro driver just trying to get well rounded replies to make an educated decision. Thanks

Plenty of people came here from 135 and made it through and plenty of people have come here from 121 and failed. It's not a good training program and it's much tougher than it should be. There is no cut and dry reason people succeed here other than being very prepared on day 1.

Personally, there were certain difficulties in all of them. (I have a 737-200 type as well.) An airplane is an airplane, but going from Cessnas and Pipers to a 1900 was difficult because it was my first systems intensive airplane and they expected us to be able to build one.

Going from 1900 - E145, the glass and automation took some getting used to, but the information is still the same. (This is where you will slot in, coming from a Metro.) Mostly it was difficult because my sims were at 2:30AM.

The 737-200 was very primitive, but even though it was a shotgun cockpit, as opposed to the glass of the 145, you almost forget about it as soon as you start flying. I told myself, "I did it on the Beech, I can do it here."

The A320's difficulties (for me) were because while the cockpit is very similar to the E145, it's automation worked kinda opposite of the E145. I'd been on the E145 so long that it was hard to just memory dump it. Not having to un-learn an old automation philosophy, you might be at an advantage, but it could be the most difficult part of learning an Airbus, I don't know. Training for me was fine, but putting the new methods to work on the line, combined with lack of tactile feedback from the flight controls in landing, was where I struggled.

Awesome thanks for the input

If you live in South Florida contact AeroStar, I believe they will let you observe an A320 sim training session for a few hundred $. Or if your company has a jumpseat capability, try and catch a ride on one.

Might be worth it, but as a previous poster suggested. Go to a regional especially one with E170/175's. I transitioned from C172 G1000 to Caravan G1000 to Embraer E175. I've jumpseated on older A320's and looks like my E175 FO job easier.

I know the E170/175 was mention as some what similar experiences..
What about guys with CRJ 200 experiences flying 121.
Does that translate to flying airbus at all?

That was me, and the transition was doable with a ton of preparation; it was challenging.

I went from 1900 to CRJ to A320.

1900 to CRJ wasn't very difficult at all, much easier than I had expected. CRJ to Airbii was a lot less enjoyable and much worse than I had expected.

My 1900 to CRJ training program was top notch. My CRJ to A320 Powerpoint presentation was Spirit.

Go to a regional.

I found the Airbus somewhat difficult to learn only because it was different than anything else I had experienced. However, once I started flying it many things fell into place. IMO it is an easy aircraft to fly.

Probably the best analogy between a conventional aircraft and an Airbus is the difference between a Macintosh and a Windows based computer. They both do the same thing but with different commands and inputs.

Also, the Airbus is the great equalizer. It takes great pilots and makes them good and takes bad pilots and makes them good.

I came from the CRJ-200. The hardest part was to unlearn the FMS on the CRJ and trying to learn the MCDU.

I think the current numbers speak for themselves. I think at last count there were over 40 failures this past year. Those are the ones invited to leave. There were more pink slips but those were deemed retrainable and given another ride.
In comparison, other majors only had one or two failures.
That being said, the training footprint is very small here, there have been inexperienced pilots as well as experienced not make it. Just depends on the individual.

All different phases from the oral to IOE. The company isn’t doing anything but overhiring to play the odds.

The number one thing they could do is sign an industry standard contract thus making Spirit attractive to more experienced pilots that generally can push themselves through our crappy training program. Right now our contract attracts pilots that are not yet equipped with the skills to make it through our terrible program. The training hasn’t changed in years yet failures are up exponentially as hiring has ramped up at carriers with much more lucrative compensation packages. The experience goes elsewhere and we get the bottom of the barrel and hope one doesn’t end up in a mountain one day

To make matters worse a lot of our really sharp, higher qualified guys/gals leave once they realize we aren’t close to the Big 4 and their number comes up. Good for them but terrible for those of us who hopefully will be convinced to stay.

I thought people stayed here for the amazing work rules???

Why is it terrilble and who’s trying to convince you to stay? Last I checked they said juniority is a plus and if you want legacy pay then go to a legacy.

That’s exactly what most of the younger and brighter new hires are doing,... right after they get their all expense paid for A320 type rating:D

Jyri, Is that you? :rolleyes:

Great woke you up from under your bridge...

Nobody is trying to but I’ve made the choice to wait it out.

Terrible was a little dramatic but meaning we are losing good people I’d prefer to spend the rest of my career sharing a seniority list with.

Nah, he's to busy looking for clean drinking water and food that won't give him three weeks of the $#!t$.

Flying with August new hire, he was great, but told me 70% of his class failed either the oral or the check ride. My class in 2013 there was one pair asking for an extra sim, and no failure. He said a few of these people had been fired from regional initial. We just had a tail-strike on a first ioe flight. This is honestly scaring me because most of them made it to the line, and will eventually upgrade.Very depressing to see...

Was this recently?

Someone showed me a pic of the APU area all bent up on a 320. No idea how that happened. I saw the pic like a month ago...

I believe it was on takeoff at LGA about a month ago.

I honestly don't know what they do for selecting pilots, but I think it's just a phone interview, no other tests...

I don't know if they do now but they did have one. That said I don't see how an aptitude test has anything to do with making it through a training program.

Was that new hire or upgrade OE? I've heard conflicting stories.