You forgot ‘comfort person’ on any layover over 14 hours.

 

I’ll take the yellow Rolex with the $15,000 being left behind…. I’ll email my rep and tell him I want a 10 year vesting schedule. Enjoy United!

 

Here’s the problem with that, no one is leaving Spirit because it is not a viable career airline.

We are hiring. We are growing. We are upgrading. We have orders.

Talk to anyone who is/has made the jump and 9/10 say the same thing: Enjoyed my time there, flew with great people, relaxed environment, but you want to go fly widebodies/be based elsewhere/wear a cool hat.

At the moment there is a unique opportunity to make a move, otherwise they would remain here and the vesting question would be moot.

Pilots come to Spirit. Some of them get a chance to move on. Some decide to stay, others weigh their options and elect to leave. Part of that decision (albeit a small one) is leaving company contributions. Those are the only people who would even benefit from that, the ones who have already made their decision to leave.

Negotiating for immediate vesting doesn’t signal this is the place to stay. An across the board $50/hr pay increase does that.

 

Well there you go. Just include hats in our new uniform and pilots will stay here.

If spirit got just a couple of 747’s from the desert and we flew them between MYR and FLL we will have pilots tripping over themselves to come here.

 

57 planes are coming in the next 24 months.
We are now attriting around (+/- a few) 40 pilots on a 30 day rolling average now.
We went from 32-36 upgrades a month forecasted down to 10 per month in the latest vacancy.
This is unsustainable.

Why is this attrition acceptable at a so-called career destination airline?
People point to the legacies and say "widebodies" or "hats." Certainly, that's a factor. SWA loses a few people to the Big 3 + FDX/UPS, too, but they largely retain their pilots ... what's the difference between us and them? They fly a single fleet type in a point-to-point network, yet they have no problem attracting and retaining talent. Maybe it's because they're highly compensated, have great benefits, and they ultimately believe in their management team. When it boils down to it, we share largely the same DNA as other LCCs -- it wouldn't take much to make this place attractive to recruiting and retaining talent. This place has so much potential and I want to see us succeed, but management isn't making long-term investments in labor or infrastructure. The only thing I can I see is an emphasis on receiving airplanes and pilots, almost as if management is trying to sell this place.

We haven't heard anything from the union or company addressing this massive decrease in captain vacancies, though it's obvious to everyone in the operation. We're not saying the quiet part out loud. Everyone knows a First Officer and possibly a Captain that has interviews lined up. Oh, and Captains that are dropping applications elsewhere. Unless management takes the initiative to raise pay rates and improve various areas of our contract, I have a strong suspicion we're going to be in a deficit that'll be hard to recover from... in other words, deferred plane orders (or worse). I also do not believe that just outhiring attrition rate by more than doubling our training output is the wrong answer; to anticipate losing around half the pilots we hire in the years ahead is also red flag to anyone thinking about staying here.

 

I tend to agree. It’s a waste of negotiating capital, but I will say for all the outsiders looking in: our vesting schedule should tell you everything you need to know about what management thinks of this place as a long-term employer. Places like Delta & United know they’re desirable places to work yet vest their pilots immediately. Spirit may claim to be a destination carrier, but they won’t put their money where their mouths are.

A $50/hr raise across the board would certainly help minimize attrition to levels where we could probably still grow and allocate enough training slots for captain upgrades.

 

Currently a captain here. I've been very happy with my career at Spirit but for the first time, I'm getting very nervous about staying. Everybody that I fly with has an app out at a legacy, and almost every captain I speak with is also considering jumping ship.

I know we'll never see top-compensation, but we are falling so far behind that it makes sense for almost everybody at the 50% mark or lower to leave for greener pastures.

 

Im not sure how many FO's you have spoke with but from just the ones in my class and fellow junior FO's nobody is leaving because of the search of widebodys. They are leaving because they DONT think this place is viable anymore. I also tend to agree in allot of ways.

To you your 3 points above, Is spirit hiring yes but not enough to fill out its order book and consequently that will stop the upgrades. Only 10 in march per flica

FO's are looking at sticking here and gambling their couple years of seniority VS something that looks more stable going forward, also less meltdowns and some other fringe things. As well keep in mind that the QOL here is based solely on new hires coming in. If that stops which it essentially has then there goes the QOL.

Before someone says that we have hired x amount of FO's, well of course it means that they stay and not leave in a month or a year otherwise they are just invalid in terms of the growth etc of NK.

 

QOL anywhere depends on new hires coming in. If you are slinging gear on the guppy commuting to reserve in let’s say SFO, NYC, LAX , commuting to reserve, you’ll have zero QOL if new hires don’t come in behind you. At the moment hiring is insane . But none of us know what hiccups in the economy maybe coming. A guy I upgraded with here was driving to work in the left seat in Chicago holding a line. Left for delta in December 2019. Now he’s bottom 98% at delta commuting to reserve on the 737 in NYC not breaking guarantee. I don’t fault anyone for wanting to leave .. but sometimes the devil you know is Better than the one you don’t. I’m super happy here . Risks for staying. Risks for leaving. To each their own. When you find QOL, and happiness in this biz. Don’t Over think it. Enjoy it. IMHO

 

Then go.

Not meant to be snarky or judgmental, but put your money where your mouth is and fill out some apps. If you’re a captain here and kept your nose clean, you will almost certainly be hired by one of the legacies and off you go.

I don’t disparage anyone from leaving, I get it, you want to take a shot. Do it.

What I get sick and tired of is the guys on the line who want to talk nervously about what is happening and why it’s a good idea to leave and what they “might” do, but keep waiting for some divine inspiration or fortune cookie to give them the balls to pull the trigger for themselves.

But they don’t, instead they stay here and sow their own fears and trepidations into people who want to stay here or might want to come here.

Want things to change here, act like a captain and start talking about how important upcoming negotiations are, that attending an LEC meeting and informational picketing is important, that knowing and flying the contract will be key. Stop asking guys if they have their apps out.

Sh*t maybe we should pay out vesting to the guys who leave, they at least have the stones to take action.