|
Originally Posted by DrSours
(Post 3403420)
Honest question, I haven’t been keeping up in the news lately. Has JetBlue talked about getting WB? You said transpacific, so I’m assuming WB in the future? Correct me if I’m wrong, but a A321XLR can’t do 12-14 which is what you would need to even do LAX to NRT or even PEK with reserve.
|
Originally Posted by Conquistador27
(Post 3403421)
I can’t find anywhere from ALPA merger policy that describes taking recent precedent into account.
|
Originally Posted by Lakeaffect
(Post 3403423)
FWIW It’s more like 70-80 hired in 90’s.
|
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
(Post 3403369)
Besides the fact that a 2011 hire gets placed next to a 2016 Spirit pilot, it is very likely that those Spirit guys hired well after the same relative JB pilot are younger, so would affect a JB pilots future movement disproportionately.
A list like AS/VA with 60/40 longevity/relative is a good compromise and a recent precedent. |
Based on current orders the Seniority list after merger grows 61% on the NK/B6 deal and 124% on the NK/F9 deal. Only B6 is already planning on parking the 190 fleet and F9 is already 95% done updating its fleet, so in reality it’s further apart than these numbers suggest. Both merged entities will find a way to staff their airline, the market will force them to be competitive. I think the future remains bright for every airline that doesn’t start with the letter “A” (and has a balance sheet that shows negative equity).
Either way, I think you Spirit guys will land on your feet. Good Luck! “In terms of immediate fleet size, a JetBlue-Spirit merger would create a fleet of 458 planes. Spirit-Frontier would be somewhat smaller, at 288 planes. The ultimate fleet size (combined between current fleet and future orders) however would be very similar, with 741 for a JetBlue win against 647 against Frontier.” https://simpleflying.com/spirit-fron...blue-analysis/ |
You guys are making this SLI thing way too hard. It’s simple.
1. Advocate your position to your reps 2. Unions both advocate their positions to the arbitrator 3. Arbitrator decides 4. Pilot groups accept it and move on as one big, cohesive group. No matter what your think is fair (obviously based on your own situation), you’re not gonna win over the other side (or the arbitrator, for that matter) on a forum and it only serves to divide the group from the start. |
Originally Posted by symbian simian
(Post 3403099)
So 2 guys went to JB, and 1 hasn’t left yet, got it.
Based on orders, and investor publications, JB plans to grow 3%/yr for the next 6 years. NK plans 15%, and if half of that happens, it’s still twice what JB is planning. Pay difference is $10/hr. Upgrade a year earlier, and it pays the difference for the next 10 years. NK plans are to sell the airline. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk |
Originally Posted by dualinput
(Post 3402525)
I’m starting to finally learn why in the last ten years corporate America has spent so much money ballooning HR departments and creating “culture”. People seem to actually care how their job makes them feel. It’s a job! I come here for one reason and that’s money. I couldn’t care less about any company’s culture. I want the most money and the most time at home. It’s all about the money and that’s how a board of directors thinks and how CEOs think. Nobody cares how it makes any of us feel. It’s a job.
|
Originally Posted by MtnPeakCruiser
(Post 3403477)
Based on current orders the Seniority list after merger grows 61% on the NK/B6 deal and 124% on the NK/F9 deal. Only B6 is already planning on parking the 190 fleet and F9 is already 95% done updating its fleet, so in reality it’s further apart than these numbers suggest. Both merged entities will find a way to staff their airline, the market will force them to be competitive. I think the future remains bright for every airline that doesn’t start with the letter “A” (and has a balance sheet that shows negative equity).
Either way, I think you Spirit guys will land on your feet. Good Luck! “In terms of immediate fleet size, a JetBlue-Spirit merger would create a fleet of 458 planes. Spirit-Frontier would be somewhat smaller, at 288 planes. The ultimate fleet size (combined between current fleet and future orders) however would be very similar, with 741 for a JetBlue win against 647 against Frontier.” https://simpleflying.com/spirit-fron...blue-analysis/ Another nugget from the most recent binding SLI decision. F. Relative Seniority Relative seniority, in various guises, involves determining a pilot’s relative position on his pre-merger seniority list and trying to duplicate that position on the merged list. Described another way, if a pilot is at the 50th percentile on the pre-merger list, the goal of relative seniority is to place the pilot at the 50th percentile of the new list. While relative seniority has surfaced from time to time in previous pilot seniority integration arbitration disputes, the concept is not a mandatory factor under the ALPA policy and has not been adopted as a critical factor in any previous pilot seniority list integrations involving major carriers. Relative seniority contradicts the concept of longevity. While the Board considered the relative seniority charts that are part of the record in this case, the Board concludes that relative seniority is not a significant consideration in determining the method for merging the Alaska and Virgin America lists. G. Static Fleet Versus Dynamic Fleet Assumptions Arbitration decisions integrating pilot seniority lists typically rely on fleet assumptions that are static on the snapshot date. By doing so, Arbitration Boards are able to see the implications of various methods for integrating the pilot work force on the workforce as it actually existed on the announced date of the merger, as contrasted to a work force determined by hypothetical assumptions about aircraft count, pilot behavior, and other merger related variables. In this case, for example, the parties presented multiple and inconsistent fleet projections. Those projections were simply predictions made at a certain date, using different assumptions, and presented to different audiences. None of them provides a reliable guide to the future. ALPA Merger Policy cautions that “merger representatives should recognize the difficulty of forecasting what will occur well into the future” [JX 1,p. 4]. While the fleet size, number of pilots, and status and longevity of pilots on the separate lists will continue to change after the snapshot date, many of those changes will be directly related to the merger. Using the snapshot date as the measuring stick for various merged lists helps to keep post-merger driven considerations from unfairly impacting the IPSL in either direction. Fleet assumptions are important because the size of the fleet determines the number of pilot jobs, the status of the jobs, the opportunities for advancement and other factors important to a pilot’s everyday work life. The Virgin America Committee argues that the Alaska fleet will most certainly grow over the next few years and urges the Board to consider several different, future fleet sizes in determining a fair and equitable seniority list. The Board disagrees. Unlike future fleet projections which may be too high, too low, or dead on, the size of the fleet on the snapshot date is ascertainable and definite. Using a static fleet analysis as of the snapshot date allows the Board to determine the impact of various formulas for merging the lists without reliance on speculative merger driven fleet size assumptions. In the final analysis, when a merged list is implemented and the fleet subsequently grows, all pilots will benefit from the opportunities presented by that growth, even if the benefit varies from pilot to pilot. |
Great info, thank you ShyGuy. Is the entire document available online somewhere?
|
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:57 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands