Originally Posted by Chimpy (Post 3403213)

unless it’s a TRO, then APC and pilots opinions somehow matter, lol.

Originally Posted by gonyon (Post 3403192)

curious what a jet blue pilot loses in actual terms with a relative seniority integration? Vacation slots? Seat? Schedule?

Originally Posted by BeatNavy (Post 3403203)

Well, we started around 4200 this year and are planning on hiring 961 (for a net gain after attrition of 600-700 of that if we hire that many). A tad bit more than 3%. As far as deliveries, for the next 5 years that’s around 19 planes a year net after retirements/lease returns, or about 6.7% fleet growth YoY, with increased utilization (220 will have higher utilization than 190, requiring more pilots…and the LR/XLRs will also require more pilots due to being augmented). Not that ASM growth matters to pilots, but due to the upgauging, that’s also going uo double digits per year. So, 7+ % a year pilots for the next 5 years minimum unless they start retiring more planes with no replacement orders, but we are understaffed anyway, so it’ll likely remain 600+ a year (greater than 10%) for the foreseeable future. 961 is 21% of our current list. Factor attrition and call it a net of 500-600 this year it’s still 10-15%, if we net 700 from starting with 4200 (the goal) that’s over 20%. No matter how you crack it, jetblue isn’t stagnant, and is a lot closer to ULCC growth than 3%, and might actually surpass it this year depending on hiring and attrition.

Originally Posted by IwasInverted (Post 3403322)

You will be very senior still, the company will be double in size. Also you should know that hire date and age have nothing to do with one another. Same class can have a 25 yr old and a 50 yr old. It should not be either end of the this argument but somewhere in the middle. It’s also crazy to think that everyone at b6 wants doh and everyone at nk wants relative. Ask your top guys how they feel about doh. My original comment was to try to get some of the logical arguments as I have not been through this before and the statement “ I don’t want to be placed by a ‘16 nk hire” is not the argument, it’s the emotional response.

Originally Posted by Excargodog (Post 3403285)

Except “expectations” count under the ALPA guidance for SLIs. From the ALPA merger policy:

Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3403384)

BS. The average age is still the average. Guys hired 5 years after me will be statistically significantly younger than me. Just reality.

Final list will probably be very close to the AK/VA 60/40. The final company will have about 8,000 (JB will have 5,000 by the end of THIS year) pilots, be approaching SWA in size, will need a joint CBA during a great time for pilots, be adding Transatlantic and probably transpacific. The airline does seem to want a more national footprint, so I don't see base closings likely. Good compromise and opportunity for everyone.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver (Post 3403369)

Besides the fact that a 2011 hire gets placed next to a 2016 Spirit pilot, it is very likely that those Spirit guys hired well after the same relative JB pilot are younger, so would affect a JB pilots future movement disproportionately.

A list like AS/VA with 60/40 longevity/relative is a good compromise and a recent precedent.

Originally Posted by keysersose (Post 3403335)

There is an average hire age of Major airline pilots. I believe it is about 37 years of age. That is why I was careful to use the word Average. Right now there are about 10 pilots younger and senior to me at Jetblue. With a relative integration there would be hundreds and they would all come from Spirit so No, I wouldn't still be very senior. I would be drastically hurt over time.

Our very Senior pilots aren't worried about the 20-30 guys you still have that were hired in the 90's. They're getting up there.

Originally Posted by DrSours (Post 3403420)

Honest question, I haven’t been keeping up in the news lately. Has JetBlue talked about getting WB? You said transpacific, so I’m assuming WB in the future? Correct me if I’m wrong, but a A321XLR can’t do 12-14 which is what you would need to even do LAX to NRT or even PEK with reserve.