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-   -   Sprontier, Please! (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/137312-sprontier-please.html)

CincoDeMayo 04-10-2022 11:01 AM
Originally Posted by cantflylist (Post 3403928)
Under pure DOH merge
Median gain for JetBlue pilot is 6.82%, Median loss for Spirit Pilot is 10.4% - that is a 17.2% Spread

Extreme inequality - October 2011 DOH at both airlines, Spirit pilot loses 18% while JetBlue pilot gains 11.9% - Thats a 30% spread

2127 (73%) Spirit pilots lose more than 5%, while not a single one gains more than 2%
2865 (60%) JetBlue pilots gain more than 5%, while not a single one loses more than 1.1%

Whoa Nelly!
Read ALPA section 45 on SLI. It is specifically intended to not favor one group vs the other. I think the SLI will be much closer to relative seniority than DOH
Read the Alaska VA ISL decision he posted. Read the positions of 3 professional arbitrators on how all 3 criteria were weighed. DOH will never happen under an ALPA merger, neither will straight Rel Seniority. Because either one ignores the other 2 criteria. Its a good read, worth the 20 minutes of time.

RonnyK320 04-10-2022 12:05 PM
Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo (Post 3403932)
Read the Alaska VA ISL decision he posted. Read the positions of 3 professional arbitrators on how all 3 criteria were weighed. DOH will never happen under an ALPA merger, neither will straight Rel Seniority. Because either one ignores the other 2 criteria. Its a good read, worth the 20 minutes of time.
Yeah I got a little depressed reading it....

Tranquility 04-10-2022 12:49 PM
Originally Posted by cantflylist (Post 3403928)
Under pure DOH merge
Median gain for JetBlue pilot is 6.82%, Median loss for Spirit Pilot is 10.4% - that is a 17.2% Spread

Extreme inequality - October 2011 DOH at both airlines, Spirit pilot loses 18% while JetBlue pilot gains 11.9% - Thats a 30% spread

2127 (73%) Spirit pilots lose more than 5%, while not a single one gains more than 2%
2865 (60%) JetBlue pilots gain more than 5%, while not a single one loses more than 1.1%

Whoa Nelly!
Read ALPA section 45 on SLI. It is specifically intended to not favor one group vs the other. I think the SLI will be much closer to relative seniority than DOH
Under straight DOH, I’d lose 17.2% while the blue pilots ahead of me gain north of 12%…. And, fwiw, I never applied to JetBlue back in the day cause they are an east coast airline, and I already paid my dues in Boston & New York, thanks.

Lakeaffect 04-10-2022 01:09 PM
Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo (Post 3403932)
Read the Alaska VA ISL decision he posted. Read the positions of 3 professional arbitrators on how all 3 criteria were weighed. DOH will never happen under an ALPA merger, neither will straight Rel Seniority. Because either one ignores the other 2 criteria. Its a good read, worth the 20 minutes of time.
just skimmed through it. One positive note I took away, is that B6 and NK have a much much closer seniority list than VX and Alaska did. And our CBA’s are probably closer too. I would think an arbitrator would not favor DOH in our situation as much as they did in Alaska’s. Maybe 60% relative and 40% DOH.

dfwflyboy 04-10-2022 11:15 PM
Originally Posted by RonnyK320 (Post 3403199)
Just be ready. My friend at Alaska got hired in 2001. He is now junior to VA pilots that were hired in 2008, by 100s of numbers. It seems like arbitrators weigh more heavily towards relative seniority than DOH, especially since we all basically have the same career expectations.

why does DOH matter. If he’s same percentage. Nothings changed.

Steelers 04-11-2022 02:51 AM
Originally Posted by dfwflyboy (Post 3404194)
why does DOH matter. If he’s same percentage. Nothings changed.

Future senoirty changes.

TurboFanMan 04-11-2022 04:43 AM
F9er here! What is the upgrade time at JetBlue been and at present time?

crash312 04-11-2022 05:22 AM
Both JB and NK have the same amount of future orders, obviously since NK is smaller theirs is bigger percentage growth....however....precedence per the VA/AS SLI below is they don't really look at future orders.

Unlike future fleet projections which may be too high, too low, or dead on, the size of the fleet on the snapshot date is ascertainable and definite. Using a static fleet analysis as of the snapshot date allows the Board to determine the impact of various formulas for merging the lists without reliance on speculative merger driven fleet size assumptions

BeatNavy 04-11-2022 05:36 AM
Originally Posted by TurboFanMan (Post 3404235)
F9er here! What is the upgrade time at JetBlue been and at present time?
2-3 years on the 190 and 3.5-6 years on the 320. That’s held fairly steady, the exception being the LGB->LAX displacement bid during covid. But, through all the recent bids it’s mostly back there. Junior 190 CA awarded is Nov 2019 hire. He got awarded it back in august. Most junior awarded 320 CA is July 2017. Their training is I think in September or October.

crash312 04-11-2022 05:36 AM
Originally Posted by TurboFanMan (Post 3404235)
F9er here! What is the upgrade time at JetBlue been and at present time?
Last bid CA awarded to 8/17 and 5/19 hires (Bus and 190), not sure about 220. Has varied over the years but in recent times relatively close to those numbers.


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