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- - DFW (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/138111-dfw.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FahQ2 (Post 3456592)

The problem with your theory is mint is a niche, not a scalable brand game changer. It works on a few key routes where some people want to flex a bit, but put an American 787 first class on the same route for a couple hundred less and I also get lounge access? See ya Blue. Same with the euro routes.

I did a transcon on mint a few months ago coming from over seas on a delayed flight, missed my company jumpseat connect and it was Super Bowl weekend so it was cheaper to fly mint than a hotel in LA. Nice product, but not the wow factor of Emirates or Singapore, but much better than say a Delta 737 first class. There were some real housewives of LA types, a D list comedian, and a well off Asian couple still holding their passports.

I get that there’s a niche LAX to NY and FLL/MIA, and selling out mint makes a boatload, but mint won’t do that on 90-95% of your other routes. It’s a newish thing for a crowd that’s always looking for the next thing.

Meanwhile, there are no shortage of chubby pale midwesterner’s who want to go on a cruise, visit the mouse, or go blow their inheritance or kids college fund in Vegas. They aren’t looking for the next thing, and are happy to do the same trips year after year.

That’s why Vegas is so canned today, they learned the real money wasn’t in staying hip for the young rich singles, but roping in the families spending Disney level money, old farts who are bored, and young people with no taste trying to flex.

The Walmart people will still be taking these flights to cookie cutter vacations long after mint gets phased out.

Cute story.

The real issue with the ULCC is what to do with 4-5 billion dollars of assets that hemorrhages cash Monday through Wednesday every single week. Allegiant and the Euro ULCC's park the planes and go home. It's not realistic to do that on an operation that numbers more than 200-300 airplanes. NK, F9 and G4 are already pushing diminishing returns at their current size. G4 is building hotels, NK is merging and F9 is throwing day trip darts at a map with a prayer.

This isn't some case of a suave line pilot knowing better than a clueless MBA in a cubical. People a lot smarter than you and I know the ULCC model faces unrealistic prospects moving forward beyond a critical mass. Business travelers won't buy it, which is the only money to be made Monday to Thursday. B6 on the other hand has the third largest travel account on Wall Street, and still taps huge leisure markets. It's a model that can win all week. That's where the money and future is. Southwest is already there and more profitable than Delta.

Unfortunately the ULCC koolaide is sold hard and long at NK. For most of the reasons mentioned in the last two pages JetBlue is the better long term play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dualinput (Post 3456703)

Unfortunately the ULCC koolaide is sold hard and long at NK. For most of the reasons mentioned in the last two pages JetBlue is the better long term play.

Not sure why y’all are so hell bent on DFW closing. Frontier dep. out of DFW are top 6 in most dep. for all airports. More than our bases of TPA, MIA, and soon to be PHX. Seems as though DFW would only grow with a merger…who knows at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halon1211 (Post 3456040)

You must of never been to DFW between the hours of 11AM and 4PM, it’s a ghost town for yellow planes.

…gate space in DFW is not the issue.

I think you need to go hang out around the Spirit gates from 11A-4PM, because they are anything but empty. If anything is restricting the use of the gates, it is the fact that Spirit airplanes have to sit in the middle of the ramp for 20+ minutes waiting on ramp crews to marshal them in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by E6BAV8R (Post 3458310)

huh, well I guess I things have change since last time I was through there.

sounds like DFW is becoming a mini FLL with the waiting for a gate then…

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 3456401)

Rambling or not they make sense. I still wonder why SWA passengers put such high praise on that company. Don’t get me wrong, some of the nicer employees for sure but the product is worse than NK’s in my opinion. At least we have the Airbus. Some of those older 737’s are garbage to ride in.

SWA’s main advantage nowadays lies in things that don’t matter at all your average non-revving crew member. Free bags. Free changes. And scale/frequency. If you’re an AA/DL/UA pilot, Southwest is just another CASS or ZED flight, and baggage fees, change fees, and frequency on one particular airline don’t matter. But for your average upper middle class leisure traveller, or even your average biz traveler, those things are GOLD.

That’s why WN commands a fare premium over the ULCCs, and that’s why the ULCCs are desperate for scale (absorbing NK). Economies of scale + frequency = success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by E6BAV8R (Post 3458310)

Spirit airplanes have to sit in the middle of the ramp for 20+ minutes waiting on ramp crews to marshal them in.

in that case you’ll fit right in at B6….try and park in MCO when there’s a soccer game on TV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by avi8orco (Post 3459089)

in that case you’ll fit right in at B6….try and park in MCO when there’s a soccer game on TV.

We have the same issue in MCO, except it’s basketball

So I guess according to today’s email. We have a maintenance facility coming to DFW soon? Or they talking about when the mechanics work on the ramp?

also sounds like one coming soon to SAT, that’s cool too.

What are you talking about?