DFW
07-07-2022, 09:20 PM
#101
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Position: Yes
Posts: 159
Originally Posted by FahQ2
The problem with your theory is mint is a niche, not a scalable brand game changer. It works on a few key routes where some people want to flex a bit, but put an American 787 first class on the same route for a couple hundred less and I also get lounge access? See ya Blue. Same with the euro routes.
I did a transcon on mint a few months ago coming from over seas on a delayed flight, missed my company jumpseat connect and it was Super Bowl weekend so it was cheaper to fly mint than a hotel in LA. Nice product, but not the wow factor of Emirates or Singapore, but much better than say a Delta 737 first class. There were some real housewives of LA types, a D list comedian, and a well off Asian couple still holding their passports.
I get that there’s a niche LAX to NY and FLL/MIA, and selling out mint makes a boatload, but mint won’t do that on 90-95% of your other routes. It’s a newish thing for a crowd that’s always looking for the next thing.
Meanwhile, there are no shortage of chubby pale midwesterner’s who want to go on a cruise, visit the mouse, or go blow their inheritance or kids college fund in Vegas. They aren’t looking for the next thing, and are happy to do the same trips year after year.
That’s why Vegas is so canned today, they learned the real money wasn’t in staying hip for the young rich singles, but roping in the families spending Disney level money, old farts who are bored, and young people with no taste trying to flex.
The Walmart people will still be taking these flights to cookie cutter vacations long after mint gets phased out.
I did a transcon on mint a few months ago coming from over seas on a delayed flight, missed my company jumpseat connect and it was Super Bowl weekend so it was cheaper to fly mint than a hotel in LA. Nice product, but not the wow factor of Emirates or Singapore, but much better than say a Delta 737 first class. There were some real housewives of LA types, a D list comedian, and a well off Asian couple still holding their passports.
I get that there’s a niche LAX to NY and FLL/MIA, and selling out mint makes a boatload, but mint won’t do that on 90-95% of your other routes. It’s a newish thing for a crowd that’s always looking for the next thing.
Meanwhile, there are no shortage of chubby pale midwesterner’s who want to go on a cruise, visit the mouse, or go blow their inheritance or kids college fund in Vegas. They aren’t looking for the next thing, and are happy to do the same trips year after year.
That’s why Vegas is so canned today, they learned the real money wasn’t in staying hip for the young rich singles, but roping in the families spending Disney level money, old farts who are bored, and young people with no taste trying to flex.
The Walmart people will still be taking these flights to cookie cutter vacations long after mint gets phased out.
The real issue with the ULCC is what to do with 4-5 billion dollars of assets that hemorrhages cash Monday through Wednesday every single week. Allegiant and the Euro ULCC's park the planes and go home. It's not realistic to do that on an operation that numbers more than 200-300 airplanes. NK, F9 and G4 are already pushing diminishing returns at their current size. G4 is building hotels, NK is merging and F9 is throwing day trip darts at a map with a prayer.
This isn't some case of a suave line pilot knowing better than a clueless MBA in a cubical. People a lot smarter than you and I know the ULCC model faces unrealistic prospects moving forward beyond a critical mass. Business travelers won't buy it, which is the only money to be made Monday to Thursday. B6 on the other hand has the third largest travel account on Wall Street, and still taps huge leisure markets. It's a model that can win all week. That's where the money and future is. Southwest is already there and more profitable than Delta.
07-07-2022, 10:11 PM
#103
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 64
Originally Posted by dualinput
Unfortunately the ULCC koolaide is sold hard and long at NK. For most of the reasons mentioned in the last two pages JetBlue is the better long term play.
07-10-2022, 03:27 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 187
Originally Posted by Halon1211
You must of never been to DFW between the hours of 11AM and 4PM, it’s a ghost town for yellow planes.
…gate space in DFW is not the issue.
…gate space in DFW is not the issue.
07-10-2022, 03:50 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 3,008
Originally Posted by E6BAV8R
I think you need to go hang out around the Spirit gates from 11A-4PM, because they are anything but empty. If anything is restricting the use of the gates, it is the fact that Spirit airplanes have to sit in the middle of the ramp for 20+ minutes waiting on ramp crews to marshal them in.
sounds like DFW is becoming a mini FLL with the waiting for a gate then…
07-10-2022, 07:10 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 176
Originally Posted by Cyio
Rambling or not they make sense. I still wonder why SWA passengers put such high praise on that company. Don’t get me wrong, some of the nicer employees for sure but the product is worse than NK’s in my opinion. At least we have the Airbus. Some of those older 737’s are garbage to ride in.
That’s why WN commands a fare premium over the ULCCs, and that’s why the ULCCs are desperate for scale (absorbing NK). Economies of scale + frequency = success.
07-12-2022, 05:20 AM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 598
Originally Posted by E6BAV8R
Spirit airplanes have to sit in the middle of the ramp for 20+ minutes waiting on ramp crews to marshal them in.
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