Did you actually read what I wrote? I said nothing about being bottom feeders. This is not a long term comprehensive contract. If you actually read and understood what i said you would realize that I think a snap up provision is one of the most important pieces…and that prevents exactly what you are accusing me of suggesting. So, there’s that….

Just stop while you're behind...

“there are people who think that the Delta TIA is the pay standard, but that we should also keep all our QOL provisions?”

Delta is the new standard. It’s what AA, UA, SWA, and everyone else will be looking at when hitting the bargaining table. You argue we couldn’t get close to that while keeping our QOL. But we all know, every other major will. So then, we will be bottom feeders in terms of pay. Snap up would be cool, but snap up to what exactly? The delta rates that you claim is out of reach? That’s the attitude you need to leave at home.

I’m hearing from a few CKA that it’s a 4% pay increase across the board with 2% per year until next contract….
If so, definite NO! This isn’t even close to Delta rates.

No way that would get close to past the MEC or NC IMO

Or solve any pilot recruitment/attrition problems for the company.

Only way I could see it being true is if the company and the union couldn’t come to an economic agreement and this is their version of kicking the can down the road. I’d imagine it’s something much more substantial, but we’ll see

no you aren’t. It you’re gonna troll, be better.

LCA don’t know anything and neither do you

NC has all ready stated even current jet blue rates were never part of their proposal. So make a better troll attempt

I’m guessing 15/5/5. Not where we should be but okay enough for the Union to send out for a vote. Hopefully not

That sounds about right... I did hear they really wanted to get the FO scale the biggest boost because that was where most of the attrition is.

[QUOTE=ZapBrannigan;3546187]Here you go.[/However, to prevent another "Alaska Discount" as just ended, pay scales will be averaged of American, Delta, Southwest, United, and JetBlue pilot pay for flying 737-and A320- family aircraft. If that average exceeds these amounts, the average will be used to adjust the pay scale to ensure Alaska Airlines pilots don't fall behind.



That last paragraph is key. We shouldn’t vote on anything unless it has something similar attached to it.

First off it seems you haven’t been in the airline industry long. You’re only as good as your last contract and everything can be long term.

Second, comprehensive or not has nothing to with getting paid less than market. That’s a line you’ve been fed to adjust your expectations and it worked. Comprehensive has to do with taking months or years to open every contract section. We did not do that here but has nothing to do with taking less money.

Third is QOL. WHAT QOL??!!! The spirit QOL myth will not die. Our QOL isn’t any better than the legacy airlines. Read the contracts side by side. We have a some things better and some things worse as do they. This spirit QOL myth is just that, a myth! It’s something new hires are fed to rationalize working for less.

Your post history says you participate in air shows and maybe live in SLC. You need to be applying at Delta. That will do more for your QOL than anything in the spirit QOL. Of course they’ll want you to get on the industry LEADING train and that doesn’t seem your speed. Sit back and let the professionals handle the heavy lifting please.

Anything with any concession of any kind is an automatic no from me.

Frontier guy here.

How long have you guys been in negotiations? 6 months?
To reach a deal so fast, I'm assuming this is just a pay rate increase and very little other details are changed?

Wish the best for you guys!

Yeah they are just opening up compensation.

Shouldn’t be any concessions since we are only opening up compensation although anything less than market value is a concession in my mind.

The official line from our NC was that 5 sections (items??) were opened, 4 were compensation related 1 was QOL. I think we started in September.

Thanks for the info. This is just a stop gap until a jcba can be reach with JetBlue. Makes sense. I figured they would stone wall until then.

Sounds good

Our attrition numbers are embarrassingly high right now. They’re just trying to stop the bleeding

Inflation since the last CBA was signed has been 21% so 15% would essential be an agreed to pay cut. Hell no.

15/5/5 would put us right around Alaska for TOS CA pay. We got annual pay raises each year in the last contract, so I believe it does outpace inflation on net. That being said, I hope it’s more

15% only puts new FOs in the $70s. Can’t see that ever getting past the MEC. I’m expecting more than that. I’m not thinking Alaska plus , but FOs need to start at $100 or more to even make a dent in attrition. Hopefully we’ll see some numbers tomorrow

I need 38% for me to match Alaska

which is what that proposal will be a fast no.

I realize that Xcargo wants to give the company relief, but if you give them first year pay, and nothing much for everyone else, you are helping the company and screwing the rest of the Pilot group

yeah I said it. Excargo wants to screw the rest of the pilot group.

Is this fake news?

https://twitter.com/aerocrewnews/sta...yh8gnZlg-_puaQ

Yes it is those are from the Alaska TA

Those are AS rates

From the outside looking in, it doesn’t seem like NK ALPA has much to lose ramming in a quick pay bump when you’re going to be negotiating a joint CBA next year with JetBlue anyway…?

Those are on page one of this thread and different

The new Delta rate on the A321 NEO will be about 355 an hour with a 16% DC increasing to 18% after 3 years.

Which just shows your ignorance, it doesn’t make the statement true. I want NK to get a good contract as much as anyone, but. Compelling NK new hires to work for 50% of the going rate at other carriers, with a prolonged period where they can’t even get medical insurance for their families is screwing THEM. NK newbies ought to get the same first year pay as the newbies at jet blue, AK, and SWA. Nobody else seems to need to cr@p on their coworkers to get a decent contract. NK shouldn’t either.

The ones on page 1 are DOS+4. The ones on the Spirit pic are DOS AS rates

The ones on page one are DOS+2 or 3, the ones in the tweet are DOS. It’s fake news either way.

This is the correct answer.

And what a disappointment that will be.

Prepare to be disappointed then, because that’s what happened.

Setting Alaska as a goal in not a goal, it’s just embarrassing.

Then it tops out at $396.92 DOS+3.


Congrats on the AIP, hope it's good!

How do you know?