our NC has stated that they were asking above jetBlue rates but also cautioned that Alaska wasn’t going to happen.

Yup - I’m hoping once they took tally of the pay rate survey that was sent out in October they adjusted their ask accordingly.

My magic 8 ball told me.

To help this pass the company is throwing in “Signing bonus”.

$11,000 per year of service.

Agreed! Due to inflation we need at least 25% increase in the first year for a an actual raise. Yearly Increases after that and Retro pay to reflect the ridiculous inflation since 2020.

Someone mentioned we should compare our gains to Alaska? Alaska rates are old news and would not stop attrition to Delta, United, AA, etc. and other airlines.

Anything less than the legacies rates will not stop attrition and are an insult to the Spirit pilot group

Retro pay before the amenable date of the current contract has even passed…huh... I mean why stop at 2020, why not pretend like the current contract never happened and get retro back to 2018

TA-TPA-JCBA. Not sure why this is so hard to understand?

DOS+2 for AS
....................

Get industry standard slope and FO/CA ratio. Stick with that. Negotiate CA TOS and the rest follows along. If the company wants to pay new-hires more, then raise the whole package. Or make a deal involving bonuses for all.

Recruiting/retention = not pilot problem.

Because we have people on here demanding retro for a contract that isnt amendable yet, but want retro for inflation? Haha. The best is ol ExCargo who wants profit sharing, but because we aren't making money, he wants it off the top revenue line.

So to answer your question on why is it so hard for people to understand, its because we have people who are advocating for the above.

The TA will come out tomorrow and the same 4-5 guys will scream at the moon and declare it "dead on arrival." Most will look at it, judge it on its merits as not being a full contract, decide if this is worth taking to the TPA and then the JCBA, and vote accordingly, while avoiding the back and forth with said 4-5 guys who like to call people's opinions "cancer" and "dangerous" if it doesn't line up with theirs.

Hate to break it to those 4-5 guys but the majority of pilots here dont view themselves as the torch bearers of the industry and that Spirit pilots have some responsibility to vote something down because it isnt Delta, with retro, with profit sharing from top line, and handies from hot FAs.

To the 4-5 guys who will be blowing gaskets on this forum starting around late afternoon tomorrow and until the vote is done, have a Happy Festivus for the rest of us.

We shouldn’t even be talking Alaska. Delta is the new benchmark. The CEOs say it. Media reports it. Who would have thought getting the pilots on board would be the hard part.

Amen. But my guess is we didn’t even hit AK rates.

such an embarrassment if didn’t even get AK rates.

we have a lot of people that are apparently dumber then a box of rocks.

spirit pilots will never ever ever make what delta pilots make. It’s a fact of life. Don’t like it? Go to delta.

This is real simple. We didn’t hit Alaska rates.

Not hitting at least Alaska rates would be the biggest waste of money. We’re gonna cost more and attritions gonna remain the same.

all the company really wants to do is keep new hire classes full. In exchange for a raise in the mid levels they get to significantly raise first year and training pay. Thus putting butts in seats at the training fbo

You get what you negotiate. Keep voting yes to industry trailing contracts and you’re right. Same job, same airplane, less infrastructure and support. We should actually make more.

Don't forget, if the Jetblue merger falls through for whatever reason, these are the rates we will have to live with long term.

And if we then re-enter the merger with Frontier, these are the rates we will be negotiating off of.

I have no idea what they are, but just food for thought. This mentality of the rates being "temporary until the JB merger" could turn out to be a fallacy.

more fake news. This will be a 2 year deal. Thus if the jetBlue deal fails. Our contract still becomes amenable

But we won't have the leverage then.

have NK pilots ever had higher pay scales than AS, DL, UA, WN?

What do you think happens then? The company leaps and clicks its heels in its enthusiasm to help its pilots realize an industry standard deal after we already gave away the attrition leverage for what could be bottom of the industry captains rates? If the jetblue deal falls through, what we get on this one will likely be all we get for the next five years of our lives.

Im so glad you will be on my seniority list soon. Pilots like you and your mentality is what is keeping NK and soon B6 down.

this is why. This attitude right here.


im not worth less than a delta a320 pilot just because he wears a hat and looks the other way in the terminal.

I think your assumption is that there wouldn’t be a fails safe that if the merger fails we go back to the table. This is probably at best a 2 year deal assuming we either merge and negotiate a jcba or the merger fails and we go back to the table with spirit. So no I doubt these rates should be considered longer term

apparently you are.


this proves my hat theory.

how much money are you throwing away because you don’t wear “The Hat”

Your situational awareness is terrifying.

have you ever had a life outside APC? It seems highly unlikely. There’s no way you have a good personality in person but enjoy this online personality you’ve taken. I’m sure you’d go to delta if you weren’t a human garbage can.

Each pilot group and company are different with different work rules. I expect our company being part of a lcc model rather than whatever model the legacies follow to be in line with other lcc contract. We won’t get delta or united or American pay. But we have more lenient work rules and a lot more flexibility than they do. You want their pay play by their rules, if spirit doesn’t want to play their rules be act like a legacies you have to be realistic in this is the company you work for. Spirit doesn’t have nearly the market share or capital that delta does. If you want delta pay work for delta. If you don’t wanna work for delta because you don’t like their bases or their work rules that’s your choice. You choose to work for a lcc and you’re giving up pay to have the qol you want. I didn’t come to spirit because they had the best pay I came because they offered a livable wage that can support the life I want to live and gave me the best qol at the time. You can’t have your cake and eat it too. Delta pilot even with “new industry leading pay” certainly give up a lot to get that pay and they work for it.

There’s no reason why Spirit pilots can’t have both scheduling flexibility and legacy standard pay.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/...021/cover2.jpg

Please stop while you're behind...................

dumber THAN…

oh really? Watch and see what happens… deal will be for 2 years and rates will be a little above jetBlue. Will likely pass ratification. I’ll also double down saying no ULCC will ever match Delta pay. This goes for spirit, frontier, Allegiant, avelo, etc.

There is **SOME** truth to what you're saying. People stay at Allegiant because they like not being on the road for 4 days, and they give up the pay in return. BUT I don't think that the B6 work rules are good enough to justify a disparity in pay. When we start negotiating the JCBA, we need to go for excellent work rules and pay. And frankly, if the combined carrier wants to attract and retain pilots, they need to understand that the pay rates attract candidates and the work rules keeps them. It takes both. I get that we aren't Delta, but we should be pay commensurate with their fleets that are common with ours.

I’m not advocating for a huge pay gap like a select few on here seem to insinuate those who are trying to approach this with an open mind are. I can approach this an accept less given our work rules if it’s a couple dollars each year.

Each contact is unique and has its own value and merits. Some people act like we need delta + 1 but allow us to drop to 0 and only pick up when company pays double. End of the day I’m willing to bet spirit pilots work less than delta pilots but want to get up in arms when we don’t make as much as them.

There’s definitely a middle ground. We shouldn’t be comparing ourselves to legacies. We aren’t a legacy. We can use their lay to figure out what the marker calls for at the high end but we aren’t at the high end. We are a notch or two below and that’s ok as long as we have better work rules and qol items that support that reduction.

You must be new here.

And by "here" I mean the airline industry.