Some of us have been doing this for nearly 25 years but I do appreciate the description of the well defined process. I learned a whole bunch.

As it happens, the MEC appears to be pleased with the outcome. No need for new negotiators.

Which is not only a concession, but the MEC is lying to us about it as well.

Nice to see that’s one of the few sections “effective immediately.” They sure didn’t want to wait for 2024 for that one :rolleyes:

Them being able to adjust 1st year pay is %1000 a concession. We have that at F9 and it has removed some of our leverage. If you're going to be giving that away, might as well get what you want.

Aren’t they also giving new hires massive signing bonuses?

One of my concerns is if we end up rejecting this, they might just turn to massive new hire bonuses with strings attached instead of bothering to negotiate with us. I’m not sure you guys will even have a new contract before we get a JCBA.

Absolutely they will.

Jesus christ please both of you if you actually work here go read the cba.

They can get around the CBA by doing day zero bonuses. That’s what a lot of these airlines are doing now.

Omg dude their problem isn't getting people in the door its getting them to stay. Take your management fear mongering somewhere else. No one is falling for your crap anymore.

What exactly is stopping them? What’s rejecting it have to do with them offering pre-employment bonuses like Frontier?

What happens to the merger with Jet Blue? Should you all be getting a JCBA?

I agree with what you’re saying. First year is not what’s causing attrition at f9. Having said that this bonus deal before day 1 of class issue has not been resolved. Alpa legal is looking at it due to the fact it’s exceeding first year pay increase of 98.5% of second year language. No idea what ends up happening?

From our CBA.

"If the Company implements a profit-sharing/bonus plan for other employees, pilots shall be included as participants in such plan(s) on the same terms and benefit levels."

If the merger fails, we immediately go to section 6. There is a 90-day early opener at the end of the 2 years.

If the merger happens, there will be a TPA and eventually a JCBA.

Why would an AIP be produced that is even a dollar short of Delta’s proposed rates? THATS the new bottom. Have some self respect, the bar has been set.

key word being employees. F9 has similar language.

here’s f9 language. “ pilots of frontier airlines inc. shall participate in any discretionary bonus programs on the same terms and conditions as other non management employees”.

Frontier worked around that with a preemployment bonus. Does ours protect against that? Baseball is saying rejecting this TA makes us vulnerable to bonuses. Seems to me any bonus before a pilot is on the list is a nifty workaround from that quote of yours.

Again Sprit's problem is not getting pilots in the door its getting them to stay. And the fear mongering of "oh what if they give out new hire bonuses!?" Should not be used as a scare tactic for your NK peers to accept a garbage TA which WILL have an affect on everyone else with their negotiations going forward including our future JCBA.

Again. I agree with you. Just providing information. Like I mentioned the issue is unresolved.

Okay Mr. Smart Man then riddle me this. If the company was so sure that would fix everything why even be at the table with our MEC before our contract is even amendable??? Why not just give out a new hire bonuses like candy and be done with it and then just drag on our negotiations when it DOES become amendable and drag it on until the JCBA?? Again your bs scare tactics won't work here. We actually have some balls over at NK.

Less than 1 year FO: "I just got hired at Delta but since Spirit gave me this 10k new hire bonus you know what screw it I'm gonna stay!" ... Sounds plausible right? :D

If I were to guess, given that they weren’t willing to go higher, they think that these payscales are better for them than bonuses, but at some point, it may be that bonuses make more financial sense. Just a guess. We do have leverage, but ultimately, we can only get paid what management is willing to offer, given that we aren’t anywhere near the end of an RLA process.

Wrong again, you don't get to vote anyway. Now go study for your OE.

This thing is a hard NO

Who said they aren’t willing to go higher

For starters your company is at the table because legally they have to be. Read your early opener language. I can’t remember the last time Alpa didn’t open early when given the opportunity. Second where did I ever mention bonuses fixing first year pay? In no way were those facts meant to be a scare tactic. I’m not sure why it scared you? Most people would see it as giving bonuses might not be legal because I keep telling you it’s being challenged. Good luck.

Where does it talk about early openers in our contract what section specifically? Where do you work again?

I work at f9 but have worked on more than one Alpa agreement. More than likely you have a 6 month early opener? Possibly but unlikely 1 year. The intent is always to get an agreement before the amendable date and just roll into the new agreement. Rarely happens for obvious reasons. I’m just trying to provide some information to your group. You can draw your own conclusions but it is accurate information.

Yea I can't find it can you tell me where it is? What sub section? Since you know everything :D

And if you did actually work on ALPA agreements in the past than you of all people should know that what happens to one unions contract affects everyone else's. You really think it's going to help F9 negotiations if NK accepts a garbage contract? Think again Mr. Alpa agreement man.

You’re funny so I’ll play along. I don’t have your agreement on my iPad anymore since I ditched it right after our agreement was ratified and I left the committee I was on. You’ll have to find it yourself but I can assure you it exists and it’s at least 6 months.

Where did I ever say how I would vote on your new TA? That’s for the NK pilots. Good luck. I’m out. don’t want to derail anymore.

Section 31 in the Spirit CBA.

Yea that's what I thought so basically the minimum is 90 days?

…to 180 days. Looks like they used the (180) 6 month option since we find ourselves with this crap.

fcoolaiddrinker was right.

But the minimum is technically 90 days so they didn't HAVE to open until then correct? There is a difference.

I have Lincoln blocked, cause he is a knuckle head, but I guarantee his knowledge of the current CBA is limited to what others have told him.

Either side can open. Why would alpa not exercise that option? You really should read and understand the TA you’re about to vote on. Not meant to be disrespectful but an uneducated vote is a worthless vote.

When did I make this snowflake mad?

Oook well you go enjoy walking up those stairs outside to your plane in DEN.