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- Spirit (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/)

- - Voting opened (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/spirit/140982-voting-opened.html)

Only carriers that don’t start at min guarantee is Republic, JB, and NK. Republic is $60/day for 30 days than MMG of 75 hours and 24/7 per diem. JB is $2k/month for the first 45 days (?), and than us. NK certainly has the weakest setup and that hinders recruiting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo (Post 3562749)

Hey, that’s me! ✋

If you haven’t heard when it’s going to “happen,” I honestly don’t know what else to say. The path has literally been laid out.

This is a 2 year deal, wasting at least 25% of the duration for probably no increase, while opportunity costs of this contract, can’t do.

But sometimes you have to walk down the hill and screw all the cows vs running down to screw 1.

You're right

We'll get em next time with the TPA, where history repeats itself and we continue to settle for less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tranquility (Post 3562695)

Not all of us want to be instructors to make decent bank…. That said, I am grateful those punks will finally have to bid their own seniority and not be able to cherry-pick trips…

That's all fine and good but it also unclogs the training pipeline. The company doesn't care about attrition because they can just keep pumping in lower cost 1st year guys to replace them IF they can unclog the pipeline. Don't get me wrong, while I like the changes you highlighted it also give the company a HUGE win.

See below for more on the topic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo (Post 3562746)

This was all made clear during the road shows.

Union said they want 72 hours and first year pay for training.

Company said “fine, that’s on your side of the table, so it’s a cost the union incurs.”

NC said “child please”

Company said “we don’t have problems attracting pilots, regardless of APC lore, we have issues retaining pilots”

NC says “you do you, boo, but we are already getting hit with $90m over 2 years in just the first year pay increase, we are not subtracting from other areas to add”

The company said they believe this will get enough pilots to staff the 500 they need next year, the met their hiring needs this year and plan to hire over 1000 to meet their 500 for next year.

Why line pilots seem more concerned with the number of apps on file when we don’t even see the stack, and they do, I just still don’t get it.

But feel free to vote no if you think the company will come back and offer more for training while not sticking with the cost being carried by the pilot side of the deal. That’s a fools errand for me.

Something else to ponder;

Even IF the company comes back and wants to talk. And even IF we get a new deal and it’s approved for vote, road shows etc, you have to ask if you think the new TA2 rates
will be more than TA1 DOS+1 rates. Because that’s pretty much how the timeline would be close to ending up.

The entire goal of this TA is to fix attrition…it will not do that. Whether this is voted yes or no, they will be coming back to the table within a year. Why not get paid more in the meantime?

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongHornFlyer (Post 3562815)

The entire goal of this TA is to fix attrition…it will not do that. Whether this is voted yes or no, they will be coming back to the table within a year. Why not get paid more in the meantime?

If this passes the company can raise first year pay to 98.5% of second year at will. If attrition continues, they’ll do so and offer signing bonuses if they need to and let it ride until jet blue takes over. There is no chance in hell they’ll be back to the table to renegotiate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongHornFlyer (Post 3562815)

The entire goal of this TA is to fix attrition…it will not do that. Whether this is voted yes or no, they will be coming back to the table within a year. Why not get paid more in the meantime?

But a lot of the goodies in the TA doesn't even take effect for another year. Flight pay, red eye over-ride, increased Direct contribution, etc.

Vote it down now and they'll be back to the table in 3 months when they realize they will be scaling back our spring and summer schedules again to avoid meltdowns (wink, wink, short staffing issues). I know four guys, one a jr CA, who accepted their CJOs as a result of this TA.

Question,
If you're a prospective pilot for either Jblue or NK, why would you even come here? Right off the bat you'll get better pay and SLI when the merger happens if you go with JB. But hey, if you come here you'll get a snazzy new uniform paid for! 😆

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishblackbird (Post 3562839)

Yeah, they’ll be back to the table (unless they decide to just let it sink and become jetblues problem), but like you said, most of the new TAs best provisions start in January 2024. So unless you can get a *substantially* better TA well before January 2024, you might well end up not even making more money out of it since there won’t be any retro.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irishblackbird (Post 3562839)

SLI for anyone hired after the merger notice will be integrated DOH, as it always is done for those hired after constructive notice

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSlow (Post 3562745)

It seems like there is this big change in attitude that we keep procrastinating, but oh it's going to happen, just not today.

But when does it though?

"Next time."

I doubt raising first year pay that much will stop or slow attrition. While I know there is attrition at the first year level it’s not a majority of the attrition. Wasn’t it posted that a majority is coming from years 3-4?

Raising first year pay may slow down attrition from first year. But imo it’s about keeping classes full. Won’t do anything to stop people in years 2+ from leaving.