Yes, but the ULCC business model wants a certain level of attrition. They’re not trying to stop all the bleeding, just slow it down a bit. This will probably be enough to keep the airline running at an acceptable level, while holding on to juniority.

If the company didn’t think this was important to do, there wouldn’t be any offer at all. Think about that again for a moment.

What other reason would they have to offer any kind of raise at all if they did not want this?

People keep talking about how the company won’t come back to the table and we will be “stuck” with current rates and that this is “free money” (it isn’t).

If first year relief wasn’t something they really wanted, they would have stalled all negotiations until the merger, not put a $400 million offer on the table before the amendable date.

Don’t be so scared.

Why are “yes voters” always called scared if they vote yes?

Are “no voters” careless?

Could it be yes voters don’t see the benefit of trying to head back to the table vs DOS+2 rates that will be in hand

I think most people realize they probably would come back to the table but the question is how long will it take to get something to vote on again. Most think it’ll be 6+ months till we have something new implemented. The economic gains from waiting may only make sense in this was a longer contract. Assume an average of $30 gains on this ta over 6 months comes out to about $13,000. If it takes 6 months to renegotiate that’s $13,000 lost potential income and if we negotiate $15 more per month it’ll take 12-13 months to recoup that $13,000.

So the big unknowns are how long will it take to have something to vote on and how much more would we gain. How long does it take to recoup the money lost while renegotiating. Big if but if what I said above came to be that puts us a year and a half from now till that renegotiation becomes worth it, close to what would have been the expiration of the ta up for voting now. We could be negotiating for pay parity within that time frame too

It’s more than the 6 months lost. Even IF you get a deal in 6 months, it’s not 6 months lost at DOS rates, it’s 6 months longer to get to the new TA DOS+1rates.

So the loss of wages also has to be figured with taking longer to get to DOS1 rates. So any TA2 rates would need to smash DOS+1 rates as well.

If it takes a year to get TA2, not only did you lose all of the year with the raise, but now the new TA2 has to best TA1 DOS+1 rates. Makes no sense when we are dealing with a 2 year deal.

Then why is the negotiation committee, and MEC so insistent we take this TA if it will be integrated by DOH only. Their angle is we do not bring enough equity to the table during the TPA if we lag behind so far in hourly rates. My understanding is it will be DOH, and relative seniority determined by perceived equity and career expectations. The last of which we will have very little with the TA and even less without it. Therefore I believe a new hire would fare much better at JB. Is this wrong?

Yeah I’m trying to assume a best case scenario there we can get $15 added to every rate dos and dos+1. I don’t see us having something to vote on again in just a month. Union has to poll the group sort through the result schedule meetings with the company and begin negotiating. I think 6 mo is realistically the earliest we could have a new deal. 9-12 mo is conservative.

Just looking at this financially you have to consider the opportunity cost of holding out. I think if we were considering a long term contract it makes sense to hold out, I think if we weren’t merging where we will be negotiating pay parity right after this it makes sense to hold out.

This is why you don’t make a career at a regional….uhhh sorry ….correction a ULCC…. aka SPIRIT. This is ASA/TRANSTATES/XJT/COMPASS on Lowest paid narrowbody steroids. Study hard during NK training as it will make your legacy training easier.

1) They have never said that is DOH only for everyone.
2) Those hired at NK or JBLU after the merger announcement will be DOH, those prior will be decided by an arbitrator. So a newhire at any airline will be at the bottom, in DOH order, nobody will “fare much better”
3) arbitrators weigh career expectations and equities brought into the merger. The NC has made the case, correctly, that if JBLU is $80 more an hour than we are, the argument will be made that because NK benefits so much from contractual gains, it needs to be considered when deciding on an integration methodology for the pre merger hired pilots.

I agree, I right there with you. It’s not worth it to me for a 2 year deal, especially considering any TA2 rates will have to be more than TA1 DOS+1 rates and more, to make up for lost wages for the time lost. I don’t see the math they makes this happen