Originally Posted by SSlow

I have nothing to counter. You are the one who made the claim that the new products seem to be failing, and I called you out on it because there is no data to support that theory. At least that I am aware of, but I will happily eat my own words if you can point to a metric that proves this to be true.

Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo

I'll just say this, what do they expect? If someone is sick and not fit for duty, nobody is calling out sick before being activated, burning sick time with possibly not being used. With zero drops or any flexibility of reserve pilots, nobody should be shocked when pilots use the sick call if needed.

Some other airlines use a "sick if needed" policy; you call in sick and are only hit with the sick time if you were to be activated. It helps scheduling automatically skip a sick pilot and onto the next, prevents pilots from having to use sick time vs maybe not getting called, and ends the dog and pony show of sick calls as float vacation.

In the end, play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Make it difficult on pilots to have flexibility while on reserve and this is what you get. CBA allows for sick calls fro any medical reason for you and/or family, so if a pilot uses the CBA correctly, let them NOI them all, its a scare tactic.

And finally, this is a company whose management has ran everyones career into the mountain, the can file for liquidation tomorrow and all that sick time is gone. Good for any pilot that is bringing some of that money home before it could be too late. These fools destroyed our careers, they get everything coming to them.

Originally Posted by Noisecanceller

“sick if needed” is complete BS. What’s to stop someone from sick if needed constantly. They get the freedom to collect their pay for being on call when they weren’t going to be used. Then if they get called they still don’t work and the poor sap behind them on the call list gets called called bc the guy above them (more junior) was conveniently sick if used.

Originally Posted by dracir1

The obvious would be that the person could run out of sick days.

Do you have it where if the person is sick, they stay sick until calling in well? Or does your system assume that sick is for the first day of the trip?

Originally Posted by Noisecanceller

Out of sick days? It’s hours and if they aren’t getting called they’d never burn hours and then on the rare case they get called they’d be sick. It would be a complete scam.

Sick for the pairing unless you call in well or sick for each rsv day unless you call in for a block of them.

Originally Posted by Easyflier301

The way this works in practice at AA is that once you get called, you get charged a day of sick for that day, and every subsequent day after until you clear sick. And by the way, when you clear sick, you're likely still at the top of the list to be used for the rest of your reserve block because those junior to you with a similar block of days will have already been used. So, if you call in SIN for the first day of a reserve block and they need you and you get charged, you're likely going to have to burn sick for the entire block no matter what...OR clear sick to avoid the additional charges and then go fly.

So yes, you will run out eventually playing this game.

Originally Posted by afterburn81

Well that’s what I’m saying. There’s no data to say either way necessarily. I only base this on the fact that I’ve been flying far more than I’ve ever flown in my life. Like hitting buffers and stuff. Because I want to see NK do well, I started to take note of premium stuff. I ask gate agents in all the cities as well as various flight attendants about what they are seeing. Trust me, when I say that I want good things for NK. And I believe it can happen. But the data I’ve compiled myself doesn’t show much from my point of view. Doesn’t mean it has failed completely and that one day it won’t take off. Looking at it from various domestic premium city pairings, seeing what I see and hearing from many of who I speak to, it’s yet to have an effect though. But hey you are clearly seeing something totally different I’m sure.

Originally Posted by afterburn81

Well that’s what I’m saying. There’s no data to say either way necessarily. I only base this on the fact that I’ve been flying far more than I’ve ever flown in my life. Like hitting buffers and stuff. Because I want to see NK do well, I started to take note of premium stuff. I ask gate agents in all the cities as well as various flight attendants about what they are seeing. Trust me, when I say that I want good things for NK. And I believe it can happen. But the data I’ve compiled myself doesn’t show much from my point of view. Doesn’t mean it has failed completely and that one day it won’t take off. Looking at it from various domestic premium city pairings, seeing what I see and hearing from many of who I speak to, it’s yet to have an effect though. But hey you are clearly seeing something totally different I’m sure.

Originally Posted by SSlow

To be honest I don't pay much attention to the cabin unless I'm non revving or DHing. I will say this though, the big fronts are never available when I'm riding in the back.

As far as talking to gate agents and FAs, I don't even bother because I'm not good at reading between the lines. And I never have been, it's why I sucked at literature class back in high school.

I'm a hard data kinda guy. I need numbers and context to really get a feel for the situation.

Originally Posted by afterburn81

Definitely only hard data can tell the actual story. In my experience, I almost ALWAYS get BF or GC seats on a DH. Non reving is always at least an exit row. Aside from simply my experience (which is obviously not the big picture but may possibly be) is one cue that bugs me. The company really stopped talking about the progress with the new products. In the beginning they were hyping them through various forms of communication. The last few months however, just seem to have fizzled in that department. There’s a whole team dedicated metrics on this stuff. They’re the only ones with the info we seek. And there’s really no reason they wouldn’t be boasting to everyone, if the numbers we’re showing that they were killing it out there.