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Spirt filed for Chapter 11 again


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Spirt filed for Chapter 11 again

Old 08-29-2025 | 10:30 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/1113

https://www.newson6.com/story/5e364f...abor-contracts

https://teamster.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/012612HostessSection1113.pdf

It’s all very clear. I’m sorry you don’t understand. The CBA is voided by the judge if the company demonstrates they negotiated in good faith for concessions and the union did not agree to reasonable requests that the company has shown to be necessary.
reasonable request being the key phrase. The mec could present a reasonable cost savings proposal in exchange for equity/future profit sharing equal to the dollar amount in savings. This was common last round of bankruptcies.

It’s likely a judge would reject management trying to impose some sort of draconian agreement. It’s difficult to do much with work rules. Most are Hard to quantify in a short period of time. Usually it’s pay rate, retirement and sick. Easy to show the math and management doesn’t want pilots using all their sick before leaving. Makes staffing difficult to predict.
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Old 08-30-2025 | 03:15 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by CincoDeMayo
1113 motion.
Has 1113 ever been actioned in US airline history?

If my memory serves me, it was an obscure scenario and had nothing to do with labor.

Emergency relief (1113) just isn’t used to abrogate labor deals in normal bankruptcy proceedings. The company would need to demonstrate that they will fail without this relief.

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Old 08-30-2025 | 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by SmitteyB
The company would need to demonstrate that they will fail without this relief.
It’s not that hard to demonstrate. It’s literally their only hope now. Get back down to F9 pilot cost levels in hopes that F9 will save them.
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Old 08-30-2025 | 03:33 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by SmitteyB
Has 1113 ever been actioned in US airline history?

If my memory serves me, it was an obscure scenario and had nothing to do with labor.

Emergency relief (1113) just isn’t used to abrogate labor deals in normal bankruptcy proceedings. The company would need to demonstrate that they will fail without this relief.
AA pilots had a 1113(c) motion imposed on them in 2012 after they rejected their contract offer in BK. IIRC The judge rejected the first attempt by AA but imposed the second.
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Old 08-30-2025 | 03:49 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Gone Flying
AA pilots had a 1113(c) motion imposed on them in 2012 after they rejected their contract offer in BK. IIRC The judge rejected the first attempt by AA but imposed the second.
if memory serves you are correct about them “trying” to do it. Don’t think they were ever successful though. AA mgmt shenanigans are why APA started talking to USairways mgmt

AA had significant money in the bank. They eventually exited bankruptcy with regular stockholders keeping their equity. The whole thing was laughable
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Old 08-30-2025 | 04:24 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by SmitteyB
Has 1113 ever been actioned in US airline history?

If my memory serves me, it was an obscure scenario and had nothing to do with labor.

Emergency relief (1113) just isn’t used to abrogate labor deals in normal bankruptcy proceedings. The company would need to demonstrate that they will fail without this relief.
Mesaba ALPA went through the 1113c fight as well back in the day.
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Old 08-30-2025 | 05:59 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by AllYourBaseAreB
if memory serves you are correct about them “trying” to do it. Don’t think they were ever successful though. AA mgmt shenanigans are why APA started talking to USairways mgmt

AA had significant money in the bank. They eventually exited bankruptcy with regular stockholders keeping their equity. The whole thing was laughable
AA’s BK was to get our pensions then scumbag ToHo walked away with a $20 mill bonus.
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Old 08-30-2025 | 06:36 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by bluespoon
It’s not that hard to demonstrate. It’s literally their only hope now. Get back down to F9 pilot cost levels in hopes that F9 will save them.
Wasn't NK Pay Rates basically F9 prior to NKs extension after COVID?
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Old 08-30-2025 | 06:41 AM
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I just recently interviewed with AA and there were a couple of FLL and LAS union reps there too.

I think that tells you that the ship is sinking.
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Old 08-30-2025 | 06:45 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Chimpy
Wasn't NK Pay Rates basically F9 prior to NKs extension after COVID?
They were close, within a few dollars of each other
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