Spirit of NKS, Part II
12-03-2015 | 10:27 AM
#1371
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 1
Rates do matter because it's guaranteed money. The ability to earn credit over guarantee is a personal choice. I w2 as much as a United pilot, the difference is that I bid lines I don't like to get a transition conflict, I jump when my phone shoots a flica alert out and I try not to leave town just in case scheduling might call.
So the United pilot makes the same as me, has more days off, and gets a 16% retirement contribution. But hey I don't care about rates because my credit number at months end was so much higher, right? And if that United pilot picks up just one turn out of open time above guarantee he has now beat me in every category, except credit.
They don't deposit credit or pay rates in my bank account but pay rates at guarantee travel to my account on the path of least resistance at a fixed amount wheras credit is highly variable.
Pilots at the well paid airlines can make high credit too but they don't take a smaller pay rate for it.
Above all: SCOPE and LTD!!!!
So the United pilot makes the same as me, has more days off, and gets a 16% retirement contribution. But hey I don't care about rates because my credit number at months end was so much higher, right? And if that United pilot picks up just one turn out of open time above guarantee he has now beat me in every category, except credit.
They don't deposit credit or pay rates in my bank account but pay rates at guarantee travel to my account on the path of least resistance at a fixed amount wheras credit is highly variable.
Pilots at the well paid airlines can make high credit too but they don't take a smaller pay rate for it.
Above all: SCOPE and LTD!!!!
I'll clarify for you. I have NO interest in working more than the minimum. You need to take bullet point 2 into account before judging my want list. I want max credit for the days I work because I want max days off on which to spend my earnings.
To be more specific, I want to make more than a quarter million bucks and never work more than 16 days a month for that amount.
My long time beotch is the trip average. It makes my rate look 18 to 20 percent lower than it used to be. IOW, the rate looked like a raise when we saw it in 2003, but we lost the ability to earn good credit per day and in the end, the pay check stayed pretty much the same. But, we got to say that we made more money per hour.
I'm not interested in making more per flight hour, but staying stagnant at months end. We need more money in our W2, not more money in our pay rate column.
12-03-2015 | 10:36 AM
#1372
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 1
Good catch Ralph. Qotsaautopilot goes at it with me for arguing for higher earnings , earned on fewer work days; and includes info showing that he works more days now to make money.
I'm all for a industry leading W2 without having to work deals and/or work extra days. *
With that said, I suspect that all our differences are not as large in person as they are on the internet.
*I would also be happy to vote for a CBA that provided industry average wages for something like 68 flight hours/12 flying days and allowed for premium pay for those who chose to work more than that min (somewhat like SWA). What I don't want is a system that forces me to work long and hard to make industry average.
12-03-2015 | 11:00 AM
#1373
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Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
From: DTW Left
While you're at it educate yourself on things like historical pattern bargaining, the NMB and the limitations our unions have. Add in what the negotiating committees have to deal with, their interactions with management reps and what the BODs want. it's a complex process. Also read up on how so much of this is tied to leverage. Leverage in part is made up of things like a favorable economy, profits, unified pilot groups, a labor friendly NMB etc etc. leverage is not gained from the oversimplification of this process you and others have stated. Spirit management penny pinches every chance they get. They won't hand over the raises you and Qotas want no matter how long you cry and sulk in the corner. We should and potentially will make very large gains across the board, but if you guys are this ignorant and unwilling to see a deal in its totality before you make up your minds then you're beyond any potential forum reasoning
12-03-2015 | 11:08 AM
#1374
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
From: DTW Left
According to your pattern bargaining plan, we should have jumped to the front in 2010. Giving 2010's performance and the fact we went through the hassle of getting released, went on strike, and ended up with this (for lack of a better term) CBA, proves it is the NC that doesn't understand pattern bargaining and leverage.
12-03-2015 | 11:15 AM
#1375
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
From: DTW Left
Good catch Ralph. Qotsaautopilot goes at it with me for arguing for higher earnings , earned on fewer work days; and includes info showing that he works more days now to make money.
I'm all for a industry leading W2 without having to work deals and/or work extra days. *
With that said, I suspect that all our differences are not as large in person as they are on the internet.
*I would also be happy to vote for a CBA that provided industry average wages for something like 68 flight hours/12 flying days and allowed for premium pay for those who chose to work more than that min (somewhat like SWA). What I don't want is a system that forces me to work long and hard to make industry average.
I'm all for a industry leading W2 without having to work deals and/or work extra days. *
With that said, I suspect that all our differences are not as large in person as they are on the internet.
*I would also be happy to vote for a CBA that provided industry average wages for something like 68 flight hours/12 flying days and allowed for premium pay for those who chose to work more than that min (somewhat like SWA). What I don't want is a system that forces me to work long and hard to make industry average.
12-03-2015 | 12:04 PM
#1376
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Likes: 0
Good catch Ralph. Qotsaautopilot goes at it with me for arguing for higher earnings , earned on fewer work days; and includes info showing that he works more days now to make money.
I'm all for a industry leading W2 without having to work deals and/or work extra days. *
With that said, I suspect that all our differences are not as large in person as they are on the internet.
*I would also be happy to vote for a CBA that provided industry average wages for something like 68 flight hours/12 flying days and allowed for premium pay for those who chose to work more than that min (somewhat like SWA). What I don't want is a system that forces me to work long and hard to make industry average.
I'm all for a industry leading W2 without having to work deals and/or work extra days. *
With that said, I suspect that all our differences are not as large in person as they are on the internet.
*I would also be happy to vote for a CBA that provided industry average wages for something like 68 flight hours/12 flying days and allowed for premium pay for those who chose to work more than that min (somewhat like SWA). What I don't want is a system that forces me to work long and hard to make industry average.
12-03-2015 | 12:42 PM
#1377
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Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 815
Likes: 0
From: Low paid Airbus gear slinger
Talk about going off half-cocked, you guys are already arguing like we got a TA. We ain't heard or seen a thing yet, until we have a piece of paper to look at, we don't know crap!
12-03-2015 | 02:29 PM
#1379
Banned
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: A320 Captain
Does not change my mind, I want industry leading in all areas, no "path to parity" for me. Parity on DOS, industry leading within our non-industry standard 5 year contract (again), or just add one more no vote to the pot.
12-03-2015 | 02:42 PM
#1380
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Aren't you the guy that said his brother worked for INDIGO and an Allegiant merger was hours away circa 2010? Just apply elsewhere so I don't have to listen to you complain in the crew room
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