Spirit of NKS, Part II
10-16-2015, 07:45 AM
#151
Boost is Life
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: In the Garage
Posts: 98
Originally Posted by Dr Pepper
I believe they are referring to open time pickup within 48 hrs. Until the uproar from the FLL peeps the company would allow you to pickup or swap trips up until the last minute. After the resolution the company started following the contract which doesn't allow access to trips within 48 hrs.
That decision is bad for everybody. The company has to burn more reserves, bidding reserve is no longer a pseudo vacation, and line holders can't improve their line at the last minute.
That decision is bad for everybody. The company has to burn more reserves, bidding reserve is no longer a pseudo vacation, and line holders can't improve their line at the last minute.
Reserves are not for covering general OT! They're for pilots who call out sick etc.
Anyways, no, this resolution was in regards to OT from out of domicile. It was passed in FLL but not at the MEC level. It doesn't prohibit trades, it places a time constraint to allow in base pilots (of every base) a *chance* to grab an inbase trip trade or pickup. Once that "opportunity" time period passed it would go to all domiciles. It will not pass at the MEC level. So forget it exists in terms of relating to the company. It isn't being used for any kind of policy or enforcement with the MEC or company in any fashion.
10-16-2015, 08:10 AM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,577
Originally Posted by JasonLeonard
That is not what we're discussing. It just so happens the company decided its cheaper to actually utilize reserves more. Apparently they didn't learn their lesson in June.
Reserves are not for covering general OT! They're for pilots who call out sick etc.
Anyways, no, this resolution was in regards to OT from out of domicile. It was passed in FLL but not at the MEC level. It doesn't prohibit trades, it places a time constraint to allow in base pilots (of every base) a *chance* to grab an inbase trip trade or pickup. Once that "opportunity" time period passed it would go to all domiciles. It will not pass at the MEC level. So forget it exists in terms of relating to the company. It isn't being used for any kind of policy or enforcement with the MEC or company in any fashion.
Reserves are not for covering general OT! They're for pilots who call out sick etc.
Anyways, no, this resolution was in regards to OT from out of domicile. It was passed in FLL but not at the MEC level. It doesn't prohibit trades, it places a time constraint to allow in base pilots (of every base) a *chance* to grab an inbase trip trade or pickup. Once that "opportunity" time period passed it would go to all domiciles. It will not pass at the MEC level. So forget it exists in terms of relating to the company. It isn't being used for any kind of policy or enforcement with the MEC or company in any fashion.
10-16-2015, 08:41 AM
#153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 320*****
Posts: 487
Originally Posted by jodaddy
My follow up questions are:
All of these 'meltdowns' seem to be related to growing pains. How quick, accurate, and thorough was the response to correct said 'meltdowns'?
All of these 'meltdowns' seem to be related to growing pains. How quick, accurate, and thorough was the response to correct said 'meltdowns'?
There is a reason why they teach classes in business about collective decision making and the pitfalls of it i.e. "groupthink". I bet this summer was a textbook example.
10-16-2015, 08:42 AM
#154
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Originally Posted by Gunga Din
I find it very newsworthy and troublesome. In my opinion, if you did subscribe to the Lynch idea you'd agree that filthy planes with urine soaked lavs are just like the empty shelves at radio shack...a serious cause for concern.
As someone said earlier we can keep our planes full for a while until the larger pool of customers has had the experience of unprofessional gate agents, and FA's that use the PA as a battering ram while sitting in a filthy plane and **** on the lav floors. Sooner or later we will run out of people who will put up with it.
The local knowledge around here is we can be just like Ryan Air but even they know enough to keep the planes clean and better train/monitor FA's professional behavior.
Don't get me wrong, I know the filthy planes are about 10% of our fights but the gate agents are so understaffed that its a constant struggle to avoid a ****ed off group of passengers.
Aside from changing top operations management, my opinion is, Spirit has to invest more in its people. You've got to pay a little extra and give bennies so the good ones will stay and actively manage the staff to cull the bad ones. Walk through DFW or any base and do you ever see a manager on the floor? Now walk through Delta's MSP or ATL gates. How many red coats can you count? Our gate agents management is in hiding!
I am really concerned about our stock price. There are other forces at work, Im sure, like rumors of a merger. We did beat estimates this qrtr but it looks like next qrtr is going to be off.
A quality CBA for pilots and FA's would signal a shift in managements desire to improve the product. We can hope, right?
GD
As someone said earlier we can keep our planes full for a while until the larger pool of customers has had the experience of unprofessional gate agents, and FA's that use the PA as a battering ram while sitting in a filthy plane and **** on the lav floors. Sooner or later we will run out of people who will put up with it.
The local knowledge around here is we can be just like Ryan Air but even they know enough to keep the planes clean and better train/monitor FA's professional behavior.
Don't get me wrong, I know the filthy planes are about 10% of our fights but the gate agents are so understaffed that its a constant struggle to avoid a ****ed off group of passengers.
Aside from changing top operations management, my opinion is, Spirit has to invest more in its people. You've got to pay a little extra and give bennies so the good ones will stay and actively manage the staff to cull the bad ones. Walk through DFW or any base and do you ever see a manager on the floor? Now walk through Delta's MSP or ATL gates. How many red coats can you count? Our gate agents management is in hiding!
I am really concerned about our stock price. There are other forces at work, Im sure, like rumors of a merger. We did beat estimates this qrtr but it looks like next qrtr is going to be off.
A quality CBA for pilots and FA's would signal a shift in managements desire to improve the product. We can hope, right?
GD
10-16-2015, 08:43 AM
#155
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Originally Posted by Plane Ramrod
So the fact that both happened at the same time is just a happy coincidence.
I'm not going to debate why one would file an NCC on that language because while it may not make sense to some it does to others for various reasons. Fact is that it's in the contract and we should be shooting for 100% compliance on every word not just when it suits us.
10-16-2015, 08:50 AM
#156
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Originally Posted by Lobaeux
Believe me, if I was Peter Lynch I wouldn't be working.
You don't find it newsworthy that our stock has dropped 11% this morning, and is down over 30% for the year?
You don't find it newsworthy that our stock has dropped 11% this morning, and is down over 30% for the year?
I'm not saying our management is actually managing for the long term and that's why the stock is taking a hit. It certainly doesn't appear to be the case and I am quite concerned with the growing number of people we are ****ing off everyday. Stock price, no. And they are not related at this point IMO
10-16-2015, 10:26 AM
#157
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: A-320
Posts: 6,929
Basically lower fuel is really allowing airlines like AA to match our fares. We may have lower costs but low fuel is freeing up a TON of cash for these guys
http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/what-is-going-on-with-these-four-stocks-on-the-move-378178/2/
Another good one
http://www.barrons.com/articles/BL-SWB-40714
"When a significantly higher cost competitor prices below its cost in an effort to drive low fare alternatives out of the markets it serves, we believe it makes strategic sense for the low-cost provider to stand its ground and let the relative long-run economics play out. We estimate Spirit’s stage-length adjusted unit costs are ~30% below American; non-fuel unit costs some 40% lower. Spirit is singularly focused on reducing its unit cost profile to profitably serve the price sensitive leisure traveler. In a “normal” pricing environment, this is a customer that is “spilled” by higher cost legacy carrier revenue management systems. By design or due to current revenue management system limitations we believe this is a customer that American is currently fighting for via irrational price competition in its overlap markets, enabled by lower fuel. Over time this high cost, low-fare pricing strategy may prove to be as unsuccessful as Song and Ted (at least those were different brands). In the long-run low costs ultimately win."
http://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/what-is-going-on-with-these-four-stocks-on-the-move-378178/2/
Another good one
http://www.barrons.com/articles/BL-SWB-40714
"When a significantly higher cost competitor prices below its cost in an effort to drive low fare alternatives out of the markets it serves, we believe it makes strategic sense for the low-cost provider to stand its ground and let the relative long-run economics play out. We estimate Spirit’s stage-length adjusted unit costs are ~30% below American; non-fuel unit costs some 40% lower. Spirit is singularly focused on reducing its unit cost profile to profitably serve the price sensitive leisure traveler. In a “normal” pricing environment, this is a customer that is “spilled” by higher cost legacy carrier revenue management systems. By design or due to current revenue management system limitations we believe this is a customer that American is currently fighting for via irrational price competition in its overlap markets, enabled by lower fuel. Over time this high cost, low-fare pricing strategy may prove to be as unsuccessful as Song and Ted (at least those were different brands). In the long-run low costs ultimately win."
10-16-2015, 10:37 AM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,425
Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
Basically lower fuel is really allowing airlines like AA to match our fares. We may have lower costs but low fuel is freeing up a TON of cash for these guys
What Is Going On With These Four Stocks On The Move? - Insider Monkey
Another good one
Spirit Airlines: ?Time to Stand and Fight? - Stocks to Watch - Barrons.com
"When a significantly higher cost competitor prices below its cost in an effort to drive low fare alternatives out of the markets it serves, we believe it makes strategic sense for the low-cost provider to stand its ground and let the relative long-run economics play out. We estimate Spirit’s stage-length adjusted unit costs are ~30% below American; non-fuel unit costs some 40% lower. Spirit is singularly focused on reducing its unit cost profile to profitably serve the price sensitive leisure traveler. In a “normal” pricing environment, this is a customer that is “spilled” by higher cost legacy carrier revenue management systems. By design or due to current revenue management system limitations we believe this is a customer that American is currently fighting for via irrational price competition in its overlap markets, enabled by lower fuel. Over time this high cost, low-fare pricing strategy may prove to be as unsuccessful as Song and Ted (at least those were different brands). In the long-run low costs ultimately win."
What Is Going On With These Four Stocks On The Move? - Insider Monkey
Another good one
Spirit Airlines: ?Time to Stand and Fight? - Stocks to Watch - Barrons.com
"When a significantly higher cost competitor prices below its cost in an effort to drive low fare alternatives out of the markets it serves, we believe it makes strategic sense for the low-cost provider to stand its ground and let the relative long-run economics play out. We estimate Spirit’s stage-length adjusted unit costs are ~30% below American; non-fuel unit costs some 40% lower. Spirit is singularly focused on reducing its unit cost profile to profitably serve the price sensitive leisure traveler. In a “normal” pricing environment, this is a customer that is “spilled” by higher cost legacy carrier revenue management systems. By design or due to current revenue management system limitations we believe this is a customer that American is currently fighting for via irrational price competition in its overlap markets, enabled by lower fuel. Over time this high cost, low-fare pricing strategy may prove to be as unsuccessful as Song and Ted (at least those were different brands). In the long-run low costs ultimately win."
....................................
10-16-2015, 11:11 AM
#159
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by JoeyMeatballs
Basically lower fuel is really allowing airlines like AA to match our fares. We may have lower costs but low fuel is freeing up a TON of cash for these guys
What Is Going On With These Four Stocks On The Move? - Insider Monkey
Another good one
Spirit Airlines: ?Time to Stand and Fight? - Stocks to Watch - Barrons.com
"When a significantly higher cost competitor prices below its cost in an effort to drive low fare alternatives out of the markets it serves, we believe it makes strategic sense for the low-cost provider to stand its ground and let the relative long-run economics play out. We estimate Spirit’s stage-length adjusted unit costs are ~30% below American; non-fuel unit costs some 40% lower. Spirit is singularly focused on reducing its unit cost profile to profitably serve the price sensitive leisure traveler. In a “normal” pricing environment, this is a customer that is “spilled” by higher cost legacy carrier revenue management systems. By design or due to current revenue management system limitations we believe this is a customer that American is currently fighting for via irrational price competition in its overlap markets, enabled by lower fuel. Over time this high cost, low-fare pricing strategy may prove to be as unsuccessful as Song and Ted (at least those were different brands). In the long-run low costs ultimately win."
What Is Going On With These Four Stocks On The Move? - Insider Monkey
Another good one
Spirit Airlines: ?Time to Stand and Fight? - Stocks to Watch - Barrons.com
"When a significantly higher cost competitor prices below its cost in an effort to drive low fare alternatives out of the markets it serves, we believe it makes strategic sense for the low-cost provider to stand its ground and let the relative long-run economics play out. We estimate Spirit’s stage-length adjusted unit costs are ~30% below American; non-fuel unit costs some 40% lower. Spirit is singularly focused on reducing its unit cost profile to profitably serve the price sensitive leisure traveler. In a “normal” pricing environment, this is a customer that is “spilled” by higher cost legacy carrier revenue management systems. By design or due to current revenue management system limitations we believe this is a customer that American is currently fighting for via irrational price competition in its overlap markets, enabled by lower fuel. Over time this high cost, low-fare pricing strategy may prove to be as unsuccessful as Song and Ted (at least those were different brands). In the long-run low costs ultimately win."
Those "revenue mgmt" systems used by the legacies are capturing much higher fares in the aggregate and using that to subsidize the underbelly of the market (which is where NK is competing on price alone).
The article, IMO, misses the point though that as the overall relative fare price increases due to fuel, costs or economic downturn, the leisure and ultra low fare travelers are the first to stop flying.
10-16-2015, 11:39 AM
#160
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Seated
Posts: 338
Since we fly to both Chicago and New York this is quite relevant. Cubs versus Mets. I could not care less. that is all...
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