Spirit of NKS, Part II
09-03-2016 | 02:54 PM
#8541
Banned
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 568
Likes: 0
From: A320
Jesus, you think Matias, Slotten and Morrison are saying, "did you see the petition? That's a great idea. Why didn't we think to ask for retro? DOH!"
You think Fornaro is going to say, "but they have a petition. We have to give them more money!"
When the NC eventually does get a TA that they think will ratify do you really want the MEC to say, "Wow, this is friggin' unbelievable. Pay rates at indusrty standard and 15% retirement and increased min. day and trip rig and we keep the seniority list instructors and there are great Scope improvements and LTD and more sick time and a fatigue policy and all of these other great things but there's this petition signed by x% of the pilot group so we just can't send it out to the entire the group to evaluate it as a complete package."
And the source matters a lot if Jyri's little pal Mike Hanna is trying to make it look like he's helping but really undermining the negotiators by trying to tie their hands to one position. Admittedly I can't stand the guy and don't trust him or his stupid smug face and it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't fishing for a management job down the road (DTW Chief Pilot). Why would I think for one second he cares about the pilot's best interests? And why do any of you think Mike Hanna or any of you know how to get us a deal better then the NC/MEC?
It's all money. Nothing more and nothing less and if you demand "100% retro" (which SWA DID NOT they got retroactive pay raises of 4,3,3%) NK management is going to take it back somewhere. Pay rates or retirement or wherever.
Come on guys, don't be sheep. Think this stuff through. Maybe call or email one of the NC to see what they think about this. Ask them if it will help them or not. Maybe wait until that all pilot call Cleary mentioned on his podcast and ask them in front of 500 pilots?
This is why rarely come here. It depresses me and makes me think that maybe this group (at least those who live to post here) isn't as professional as UAL, AA, DL, SWA ALA, etc. Maybe we are just inferior. Some people are not what they seem and do not have ALPA's back.
You think Fornaro is going to say, "but they have a petition. We have to give them more money!"
When the NC eventually does get a TA that they think will ratify do you really want the MEC to say, "Wow, this is friggin' unbelievable. Pay rates at indusrty standard and 15% retirement and increased min. day and trip rig and we keep the seniority list instructors and there are great Scope improvements and LTD and more sick time and a fatigue policy and all of these other great things but there's this petition signed by x% of the pilot group so we just can't send it out to the entire the group to evaluate it as a complete package."
And the source matters a lot if Jyri's little pal Mike Hanna is trying to make it look like he's helping but really undermining the negotiators by trying to tie their hands to one position. Admittedly I can't stand the guy and don't trust him or his stupid smug face and it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't fishing for a management job down the road (DTW Chief Pilot). Why would I think for one second he cares about the pilot's best interests? And why do any of you think Mike Hanna or any of you know how to get us a deal better then the NC/MEC?
It's all money. Nothing more and nothing less and if you demand "100% retro" (which SWA DID NOT they got retroactive pay raises of 4,3,3%) NK management is going to take it back somewhere. Pay rates or retirement or wherever.
Come on guys, don't be sheep. Think this stuff through. Maybe call or email one of the NC to see what they think about this. Ask them if it will help them or not. Maybe wait until that all pilot call Cleary mentioned on his podcast and ask them in front of 500 pilots?
This is why rarely come here. It depresses me and makes me think that maybe this group (at least those who live to post here) isn't as professional as UAL, AA, DL, SWA ALA, etc. Maybe we are just inferior. Some people are not what they seem and do not have ALPA's back.
Logic and sound reasoning left this forum awhile ago.
09-03-2016 | 02:59 PM
#8542
New Hire
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
From what I am seeing, 100% retro is not a management objective, so I guess I am a bit miffed as to why you are holding such contempt for a fellow pilot who is standing up for us all and trying to get one unified voice with one goal to add to the contract that will force the MEC to only accept a contract that includes making us all whole. I assure you he is not the one "behind" it, there were many people pushing for this and he volunteered to upload it to change.org
Try to see the bigger picture here, over 10% of the pilot group has already signed it in a matter of just hours. I sincerely hope to see 1400 names in unison demanding the company come to the table with a fair proposal. This gives the NC serious ammunition to force the company to play ball, or it will just get a whole lot more expensive as it drags on. This is a win for everyone, and shows that you can even get 26%er's onboard to support the NC in a goal like this.
Try to see the bigger picture here, over 10% of the pilot group has already signed it in a matter of just hours. I sincerely hope to see 1400 names in unison demanding the company come to the table with a fair proposal. This gives the NC serious ammunition to force the company to play ball, or it will just get a whole lot more expensive as it drags on. This is a win for everyone, and shows that you can even get 26%er's onboard to support the NC in a goal like this.
I completely disagree with your misguided views on what this petition does for our MEC/NC and this pilot group and my contempt for you began long before you started the petition drive. I don't trust you, your judgment or your motives and your support for the MEC and NC is phony which is clearly evident to all who have spent any time in your company and listened to your opinions. You are once again (yes, I know the other things) attempting to divide this pilot group, not unite them and I sincerely believe you are deliberately attempting to mislead the pilot group for your own purposes. I believe you your unchecked ego lets you think you know better than the NC and MEC how to best get us a contract.
10+% of this group are either morons (I apologize, that was a bit harsh) or sheep if they think signing the proposal does anything to "demand the company to come to the table with a fair proposal." Read your own damn petition, dimwit. It does no such thing. Quite the contrary, it acts only on the MEC members by restricting them from honoring their obligation as elected officers to exercise their good judgement in deciding what should or should not be sent out for a ratification vote. Furthermore, denying a ratification vote without some individual pet provision does not give the NC ammunition, it limits their ability to be flexible and put many, many millions of dollars in the place they think it would do the most good (like retirement or pay rates). They're not going to add money for retro after we get the rest done.
You were an F/O at Piedmont who never did anything for ALPA there and since arriving here haven't done anything positive for anyone other than yourself. You have never negotiated a contract and have never been an elected rep. That, in and of itself, doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you ignorant on how these things are best accomplished. You're understanding of negotiations or union administration is naive (as is evidenced by your stated belief that this petition will have any positive impact) and is clearly dangerous to for the honest, hardworking members of this pilot group who should be demonstrating their confidence in the NC and MEC by allowing them to use their best judgment.
Every time you post you reinforce my opinion that your critical thinking skills are that of a small child. Maybe you should work on a petition to send to Bendo "requiring" him to come to the table with a fair proposal and play ball.
I'm done. Early report tomorrow.
09-03-2016 | 03:18 PM
#8543
Banned
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 177
Likes: 0
From: A320 Captain
Mike,
I completely disagree with your misguided views on what this petition does for our MEC/NC and this pilot group and my contempt for you began long before you started the petition drive. I don't trust you, your judgment or your motives and your support for the MEC and NC is phony which is clearly evident to all who have spent any time in your company and listened to your opinions. You are once again (yes, I know the other things) attempting to divide this pilot group, not unite them and I sincerely believe you are deliberately attempting to mislead the pilot group for your own purposes. I believe you your unchecked ego lets you think you know better than the NC and MEC how to best get us a contract.
10+% of this group are either morons (I apologize, that was a bit harsh) or sheep if they think signing the proposal does anything to "demand the company to come to the table with a fair proposal." Read your own damn petition, dimwit. It does no such thing. Quite the contrary, it acts only on the MEC members by restricting them from honoring their obligation as elected officers to exercise their good judgement in deciding what should or should not be sent out for a ratification vote. Furthermore, denying a ratification vote without some individual pet provision does not give the NC ammunition, it limits their ability to be flexible and put many, many millions of dollars in the place they think it would do the most good (like retirement or pay rates). They're not going to add money for retro after we get the rest done.
You were an F/O at Piedmont who never did anything for ALPA there and since arriving here haven't done anything positive for anyone other than yourself. You have never negotiated a contract and have never been an elected rep. That, in and of itself, doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you ignorant on how these things are best accomplished. You're understanding of negotiations or union administration is naive (as is evidenced by your stated belief that this petition will have any positive impact) and is clearly dangerous to for the honest, hardworking members of this pilot group who should be demonstrating their confidence in the NC and MEC by allowing them to use their best judgment.
Every time you post you reinforce my opinion that your critical thinking skills are that of a small child. Maybe you should work on a petition to send to Bendo "requiring" him to come to the table with a fair proposal and play ball.
I'm done. Early report tomorrow.
I completely disagree with your misguided views on what this petition does for our MEC/NC and this pilot group and my contempt for you began long before you started the petition drive. I don't trust you, your judgment or your motives and your support for the MEC and NC is phony which is clearly evident to all who have spent any time in your company and listened to your opinions. You are once again (yes, I know the other things) attempting to divide this pilot group, not unite them and I sincerely believe you are deliberately attempting to mislead the pilot group for your own purposes. I believe you your unchecked ego lets you think you know better than the NC and MEC how to best get us a contract.
10+% of this group are either morons (I apologize, that was a bit harsh) or sheep if they think signing the proposal does anything to "demand the company to come to the table with a fair proposal." Read your own damn petition, dimwit. It does no such thing. Quite the contrary, it acts only on the MEC members by restricting them from honoring their obligation as elected officers to exercise their good judgement in deciding what should or should not be sent out for a ratification vote. Furthermore, denying a ratification vote without some individual pet provision does not give the NC ammunition, it limits their ability to be flexible and put many, many millions of dollars in the place they think it would do the most good (like retirement or pay rates). They're not going to add money for retro after we get the rest done.
You were an F/O at Piedmont who never did anything for ALPA there and since arriving here haven't done anything positive for anyone other than yourself. You have never negotiated a contract and have never been an elected rep. That, in and of itself, doesn't make you a bad person, it makes you ignorant on how these things are best accomplished. You're understanding of negotiations or union administration is naive (as is evidenced by your stated belief that this petition will have any positive impact) and is clearly dangerous to for the honest, hardworking members of this pilot group who should be demonstrating their confidence in the NC and MEC by allowing them to use their best judgment.
Every time you post you reinforce my opinion that your critical thinking skills are that of a small child. Maybe you should work on a petition to send to Bendo "requiring" him to come to the table with a fair proposal and play ball.
I'm done. Early report tomorrow.
Your anger is misguided. I have been called a lot of things on here, but "Mike"?
09-03-2016 | 03:55 PM
#8544
Banned
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 501
Likes: 0
From: A320 CA
Hanna! You rock dude! Obviously some power hungry goons here are threatened by you and the rest of the pilot group that has a little common sense! Where's my damn quid for the relief those imbecils gave away? Recall NOW! NewA320Driver. You're pathetic...
Petition signed. 100% retro!
Petition signed. 100% retro!
09-03-2016 | 04:02 PM
#8545
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Ladies, gentlemen (I use this term loosely), and toddlers.
You all know that management reads these posts. This game of negotiations is long, slow, and definitely frustrating. Our negotiators have yet to have their first meeting with the company and the meditor. Let them do their job. How about we just let these meetings play out, THEN ask them questions and concerns that we have? Unfortunately, we do have to play this game in order to succeed.
Whether we agree with each other or not, we can ALL agree that we do have a common goal so please stop embarrassing yourselves and giving the company ammo.
You all know that management reads these posts. This game of negotiations is long, slow, and definitely frustrating. Our negotiators have yet to have their first meeting with the company and the meditor. Let them do their job. How about we just let these meetings play out, THEN ask them questions and concerns that we have? Unfortunately, we do have to play this game in order to succeed.
Whether we agree with each other or not, we can ALL agree that we do have a common goal so please stop embarrassing yourselves and giving the company ammo.
09-03-2016 | 04:03 PM
#8546
flamed out & inverted
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
From: Lav
I signed, this isn't a clause in the proposal gang-its a note to the committee to consider this line of action to both encourage NK boneheads to move their ass and to bring compensation to the line. Again its not a legal document so cool your jets folks-lets keep calm and move on to the FUPM window.
09-03-2016 | 04:43 PM
#8547
Gets Off to Weekends
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
From: A320 FO
I signed, this isn't a clause in the proposal gang-its a note to the committee to consider this line of action to both encourage NK boneheads to move their ass and to bring compensation to the line. Again its not a legal document so cool your jets folks-lets keep calm and move on to the FUPM window.
09-03-2016 | 04:46 PM
#8548
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 683
Likes: 30
Jesus, you think Matias, Slotten and Morrison are saying, "did you see the petition? That's a great idea. Why didn't we think to ask for retro? DOH!"
You think Fornaro is going to say, "but they have a petition. We have to give them more money!"
When the NC eventually does get a TA that they think will ratify do you really want the MEC to say, "Wow, this is friggin' unbelievable. Pay rates at indusrty standard and 15% retirement and increased min. day and trip rig and we keep the seniority list instructors and there are great Scope improvements and LTD and more sick time and a fatigue policy and all of these other great things but there's this petition signed by x% of the pilot group so we just can't send it out to the entire the group to evaluate it as a complete package."
And the source matters a lot if Jyri's little pal Mike Hanna is trying to make it look like he's helping but really undermining the negotiators by trying to tie their hands to one position. Admittedly I can't stand the guy and don't trust him or his stupid smug face and it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't fishing for a management job down the road (DTW Chief Pilot). Why would I think for one second he cares about the pilot's best interests? And why do any of you think Mike Hanna or any of you know how to get us a deal better then the NC/MEC?
It's all money. Nothing more and nothing less and if you demand "100% retro" (which SWA DID NOT they got retroactive pay raises of 4,3,3%) NK management is going to take it back somewhere. Pay rates or retirement or wherever.
Come on guys, don't be sheep. Think this stuff through. Maybe call or email one of the NC to see what they think about this. Ask them if it will help them or not. Maybe wait until that all pilot call Cleary mentioned on his podcast and ask them in front of 500 pilots?
This is why rarely come here. It depresses me and makes me think that maybe this group (at least those who live to post here) isn't as professional as UAL, AA, DL, SWA ALA, etc. Maybe we are just inferior. Some people are not what they seem and do not have ALPA's back.
You think Fornaro is going to say, "but they have a petition. We have to give them more money!"
When the NC eventually does get a TA that they think will ratify do you really want the MEC to say, "Wow, this is friggin' unbelievable. Pay rates at indusrty standard and 15% retirement and increased min. day and trip rig and we keep the seniority list instructors and there are great Scope improvements and LTD and more sick time and a fatigue policy and all of these other great things but there's this petition signed by x% of the pilot group so we just can't send it out to the entire the group to evaluate it as a complete package."
And the source matters a lot if Jyri's little pal Mike Hanna is trying to make it look like he's helping but really undermining the negotiators by trying to tie their hands to one position. Admittedly I can't stand the guy and don't trust him or his stupid smug face and it wouldn't surprise me if he wasn't fishing for a management job down the road (DTW Chief Pilot). Why would I think for one second he cares about the pilot's best interests? And why do any of you think Mike Hanna or any of you know how to get us a deal better then the NC/MEC?
It's all money. Nothing more and nothing less and if you demand "100% retro" (which SWA DID NOT they got retroactive pay raises of 4,3,3%) NK management is going to take it back somewhere. Pay rates or retirement or wherever.
Come on guys, don't be sheep. Think this stuff through. Maybe call or email one of the NC to see what they think about this. Ask them if it will help them or not. Maybe wait until that all pilot call Cleary mentioned on his podcast and ask them in front of 500 pilots?
This is why rarely come here. It depresses me and makes me think that maybe this group (at least those who live to post here) isn't as professional as UAL, AA, DL, SWA ALA, etc. Maybe we are just inferior. Some people are not what they seem and do not have ALPA's back.
This turd sounds like polutti 💩💩💩💩💩
09-03-2016 | 05:49 PM
#8550
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
From: COO
Hey guys,
On behalf of your highly compensated and competent management team, I'd like to encourage all the Spirit pilots to go and sign this petition! Jyri and I have been pleading with Bob to let us give you even more money and this is just what we need.
Here's the plan: your NC will be bound by this petition (brilliant piece of foresight by Jyri's middle eastern friend) and right before we sign a TA, BOOM........... We'll all have to open our wallets even more, just to get you fantastic boys and girls on board! Bob will have no choice!
I do like that Audi fella, although I'd heard he was driving a Porsche now.... Is that true? .......... I'm a little perplexed, MH has a picture of himself with Trump (my personal idol) and Audi (supposedly) drives a Porsche......... Are union workers now making that kind of mullah (pardon the pun MH)? Clearly you're already making plenty!
That being said, maybe high fives are in order?
Later kids.....
On behalf of your highly compensated and competent management team, I'd like to encourage all the Spirit pilots to go and sign this petition! Jyri and I have been pleading with Bob to let us give you even more money and this is just what we need.
Here's the plan: your NC will be bound by this petition (brilliant piece of foresight by Jyri's middle eastern friend) and right before we sign a TA, BOOM........... We'll all have to open our wallets even more, just to get you fantastic boys and girls on board! Bob will have no choice!
I do like that Audi fella, although I'd heard he was driving a Porsche now.... Is that true? .......... I'm a little perplexed, MH has a picture of himself with Trump (my personal idol) and Audi (supposedly) drives a Porsche......... Are union workers now making that kind of mullah (pardon the pun MH)? Clearly you're already making plenty!
That being said, maybe high fives are in order?
Later kids.....
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