RgrMurdock

If you read everything including the costing stuff then you should know this was a pretty good deal. Most guys I ran into on line still thought that a 4 hour min day made 16 hour four day pairings even after all the stuff alpa put out. With bad understanding like that and anger over the payroll issues I'm not surprised it failed. It just failed for the wrong reasons.

Metering

It also failed because when the negotiations started, the dynamic of our industry was different. When they negotiated this, in tandem, the union was also negotiating what they thought was a contract extension that included what were (and was for about a week) the highest FO payscales in the industry. The PBS negotiations needed to change to reflect the new changes to our industry over the last few months and did NOTHING to bring us up on par with our peers or offer the current pilot group any significant improvements to QOL. And I am sorry, but throughout it all, the union MEC appeared to be ignorant to the very vocal concerns being voiced by pilots on the facebook page. The MEC seemed happy to maintain a mediocre agreement (admitting that it was not leading!) under the guise "well, we fly 50-seaters... so.. yeah.."

That is NOT the correct mindset. Our MEC should not negotiate under the same rules that govern the Shiny Jet Syndrome crowd. Just because Gojet or Endeavor or Envoy flies CRJ700s doesnt mean we are any less deserving or that they are more deserving. Just because "its the way it is" doesn't mean its the way it needs to be.

The extension was passed with promises of substantial gains with the PBS implementation and nothing substantial was given. And the things that were offered, fell short of the mark and were bogged down in language that made it difficult to utilize.

On a separate note, a system as monstrous as PBS that would require pages upon pages upon pages of verbiage to protect the pilot group from abuse can - in no way - be considered a "good" system.

And now, the company has DECIDED to reduce reserve pilots to 10 days off. Nothing in the CBA requires the company to do so. They decided on their own to utilize that language. They will come to regret that when the already limited supply of regional airlines applicants factor that in to their employment decisions.

In the meanwhile, we remain a regional airline that offers ZERO to a new hire that they cant get better elsewhere.

Coneydog

I can't imagine the company is going to follow through on making reserves have the 10 day off minimum. They will only lose pilots if they do that. And they certainly won't hire many. I hope the company doesn't try and play hard ball with the pilot group. This can all be handled with civility. The company will either change with the times, or they will shrink and go out of business. It's that simple.

CBreezy

Nothing substantial:
-Increase min day from zero to 4 per day.
-increase scheduled min day from 0 to 3, then 3.5/4 when conditions are met.
-no enforceable long call language to mandatory 20% long call with 2 conversions per month.
- junior man pay from 150% to 175% or whatever critical day pay is.
- critical day pay of 175%
- holiday pay from 0 to 150% legs flown on holiday.
- travel days paid DH time changed to 4 hour min day.
- reserves working on day off from 115% to 150% of time flown or 4 hours
-vacation pay from 3.25 to 3.5 hours per day
-moving vacation went from covering up or uncovering a trip for line holders to all pilots can move vacation 2 days forward or back
-reserves from no early release without chief approval to auto released at 1800 if going into days off
-reserves no control over schedule to being able to bid am/pm reserve
-commuter hotels none to 4
-ALPA built pairings will be used if they meet company parameters.

Also, to say PBS isnt good because it has lots of protection is ignorant. It had lots of protection because the company and ALPA are equally involved in schedule creation. This prevents them from just taking over the program.

minimwage4

Nothing changed other than you might get 10 days off on reserve.

minimwage4

I think they will, so they can get more coverage on reserve. The junior reserve CAs are probably going to get screwed more than the new FOs that get lines right away. But then again when are you ever not screwed as a reserve at Tsa?

Planedrive

So does this make GoJet's contract better than ours and more appealing to new hires?

Commuter hotels
Min day
Higher CA pay scales
11 days off for reserve

Uhhhohhhh

RgrMurdock

Except for the higher pay scales. If you check the 51-78 seat captain rates, I think we're still higher.

Planedrive

I stand corrected... So if in 3 years we get the mythical MRJ then our payscales will rise to gojet standards or maybe a little bit higher...


I bet we are going to have a lot of ****ed off old pilots here if they find this out!

RgrMurdock

Since when did everything in a contract have to be industry leading? I'm really surprised how even saying you're number 2 or 3 in the regional industry isn't good enough anymore. "If you're not first you're last!" You saw Republic took a huge leap right into bankruptcy. AWAC is arguably the second best and they currently don't have an agreement to continue operating after 2017 or 18. Again, you need to look at the cost analysis and see where they are hiding the boat loads of cash you want. 4 hour min day is industry leading. Based on the data I read from the 4 hour min day stuff, we're leaving at least 20 minutes of soft time pay per day on the table for most of the bases with low productivity. If we get larger stage length aircraft, I'll be happy to demand a higher min day from ALPA. What you fail to see is it's not the size of the airplane that dictates the min day, it's the flying that you can fit into one day. Smaller airplane = less flying in one day = more soft time credits the higher the min day gets. The average min day is about 3.6 and that's not even taking into account the carve outs that of first day last day that a lot of carriers have. Vacation pay? Second highest. Critical open time pay? 2nd or 3rd highest. etc. etc. etc. Since when is it deemed a failure to be one of the best in the industry and where are these other carriers that you speak of taking leaps and bounds in contract language other than first year pay or bonuses? Who knows where republic is going to land out of BK. ASA and XJT signed extensions that didn't do a whole lot to their contract. MESA and AWAC are still in negotiations with no end in sight. I would be concerned if any of this stuff in this agreement wasn't at least better than average.

And the pilot group didn't have to vote this thing down. To not even consider the 10 day off reserve language as a possibility is completely naive. First it was "the company has a better offer." Now I hear "they'll never do 10 days off." And now it's "They can't do 10 days off forever because of staffing." It's so easy for guys on facebook not on reserve to tell everyone to hang in there.

FYI it's not considered a bad thing to have a lot of contract language on PBS. It's all protections in scheduling just like section 25 is right now (30 pages in the contract already not counting all the MOUs and LOAs). The program is the most used program in the US between regionals, LCCs, and majors. But that must be because it sucks right?

But let's hang out at 10 days off for reserve and keep telling reserve guys "it's not so bad." "The company didn't HAVE to do it." We can join the ever shrinking number of regionals that don't have PBS soon (PSA, PDT, AWAC) and be proud of it. Let planning continue to have control over line construction.