I think most of you missed the point. A few of the early posters got it.

This isn't about whether the DAL FAs should or should not unionize (or be allowed to unionize according to some of you). It about whether the pilot group should publicly support this effort.

I don't work for DAL, so I have no dog in this fight. However, an early poster said it best when he said that a majority voted no, and the pilots pushing a union would be going against the wishes of the majority.

It's not wise for a labor group to interfere in another labor group's organizational efforts. It's kind of like when you're friends with a couple getting divorced and you take sides and say what a jerk the other spouse is. Then unexpectedly, the couple gets back together and you lose friends because the person you badmouthed is back and you're now the bad guy for badmouthing him. This is what it would be like if the pilots support unionization, but it fails.

If the FAs choose to unionize, it's their fight, and their fight only. If the effort goes through or not, the pilots should professionally support the FAs 100%, but let them fight their own fight. That's not being weak, that's being smart.

 

DALFA, have you considered that the biggest obstacle is the union you're choosing?

I'm sorry, but AFA is notorious for having "issues". My wife is an AFA member, and I have had a good inside look. I would say that on a national scale AFA is notoriously reckless about pursuing job actions (C.H.A.O.S) with little provocation, for the wrong reasons, and without the support of the other unions. Many times, AFA has pursued illegal CHAOS actions and damaged an airline just because they are angry. They don't seem to exercise due diligence and restraint when they do this. I think they seem to be unnecessarily militant at some times, and unnecessarily weak at other times.

And now they merged with the CWA (communications workers)? What's up with that? It would appear they couldn't stand on their own.

I also agree with the posters who opined that AFA is more interested in collecting dues. My wife was on medical leave for 11 months, and they still sent her a dues bill, despite being out of work, unpaid. ALPA doesn't even do that! The bottom line, AFA doesn't seem to have any solid safety support structure or representational structure in Washington like most unions. Their chief mission seems to be "screw all of you, we're going to get ours, nyah, nyah".

Getting to the point, perhaps you would be better served by trying to organize an in-house union? Or maybe even go with IBT? I suspect that if you DAL FAs continue to court AFA, it will be DOA every time.

 

Within the past 12 months Mesa and GLA have hired with 300TT & 30ME...

You are reading only what you want to read. I know that EVERY FO here at DL has at least 2000 hours or so, and that everyone in the left seat has at least 6000 hours. Like I said, you guy earned every single dollar you earn...its a shame that some airlines pay you less than Greyhound pays its bus drivers, even if you are an FO on a B1900! I know that every single up up front at DL has TONS of experience, has a college degree, and is qualified to fly that jet.

 

This union drive is not to increase pay, increase benefits, increase our overall cost. This is to make sure that WE as a group have a job tomorrow, that WE aren't bullied arount by managment, and that our work rules don't change every week!

For those of you that have forgotten...in the fall of 2005, NWA fought to outsource the international flying at NWA...which would have resulted in 30% of F/As losing their jobs. It was the CBA that prevented that from happening! This is why we need one. This is not about the market, this is about people having jobs and actually being able to put food on the table. At the top of the food chain there are on 2 DL guys left, the others are all NW or former NW...am I worried that DL is going to ship my job over to Ghandi in India? Hell yes I am! They tried it once, whats going to stop them next time if there is no CBA in place.

 

You have a point, however no onther unin is going to come in after this vote and spend all that money to try and organize again. AFA vote originally failed in 2001. We had to BEG AFA to help us organize for that vote earlier this year, now we get a freebie with the morger.

As far as an in-house union...do you know how expensive it is to start an in-house union? Who has that money???

Also, we can't have any other AFL-CIO union on the ballot because they cannot compete against each other!

 

You can put me in the yes column. That is if the majority of co workers I fly with ask me to support their cause. There is a minority of pilots who I have flown with that believe "I have mine, pull up the ladder". Again, a minority.
It really bothered me that we didn't support our mechanics in 2005. Ironically, when I came back from furlough, everyone was complaining about the fact that the "replacement" mechanics couldn't find the APU on a DC'9. Hello!!
I have flown with a couple of Northwest F/A's who are very vocal about keeping the union. If that is their desire, then I support them.
You have to remember that we are in a generation of "If it doesn't affect me, then it screw everyone else!" ie the two wars were in the middle of.
It would do us good to change that mind set sooner than later.
Back to lurking.

 

No, I'm reading what you wrote. You don't seem to understand the difference between minimum times to get hired, and time to upgrade to the left seat. I don't know what airline GLA is, but I suspect the days of any airline hiring with the times you mention are over.

Yes, we earn every dollar, but pilots, and all employees, are paid with reference to what the market will bear. Low pay is a fact of life in this business. That's the way it works in the first few years of most any job. Even more so if you are a B1900 F/O. I don't want to drive a Greyhound bus, and don't envy their salary...more power to 'em.

But I'm glad you know we're qualified to fly the jet.

This thread has taken a u-turn from your original intent, but it's slightly insulting to come on a forum full of airline pilots and tell us you could do our job in 12-15 weeks of training and a commercial ticket.

 

Once again to fail to grasp on what what the message is. Yes anyone can do my job, but not anyone can do it well. Yes anyone can do your job, but not everyone can do it well.

Flight attendants at regionals make less than at mainline, why? because F/As at mainline usually have higher qualifications for the job. Just like you guys, thats why you get paid more than your regional counterparts. Yes I know aircraft sizes etc...

Once again, I am not arguing that every single one of you has earned what you make, and you deserve every single dollar!

Yes I feel confident that any pilot at Delta is very capable of landing a 757 in the worst weather conditions, or with an engine out, or whatever the case may be. No I do not feel confident someone with 300 hours can land an RJ at LGA under very bad weather conditions...
Thats why there is that big of a spread between someone who just barely meets the qualifications, and a professional. We at DL like to see each other as professionals, and this as a career. On the other hand a 21 year-old with absolutely no work experience that just got hired on at Mesa might see this as a job...and only a job.

 

This is a service job. Like a waiter, you get drinks and pick up trash. If you want to be management apply for it. You dont get rewarded for a PHD if you work at a job that requires a GED.

 

Exacly. But does a waiter get more compensation and more respect if he/she works at Mario's Diner or at Le Bernardin New York?