Respectfully we voted and we won fair and square, don't be a sore loser, and at the same time We gotta be classy and not gloat that's not cool. If anything all egos aside we got the perfect opportunity staring us in the face! Don't get caught in the hype all this mudslinging and bickering does nothing but make us look stupid and not get what we deserve and worked hard for. Decent wage, quality of life, etc.... If We stand our ground we can really Profit. Trust BB and Co are scheming on a way for us to self destruct let's not give them that opportunity. If you're upset about the election that's cool but instead of chest thumping and keyboard commando-ism lets focus our anger on the Real cause of our woes...

 

That's just crazy. If not flamebait, I feel sorry for you.

 

That's your choice Roundup, but know this:

1. If you actually do scab, it will be a self-inflicted virus that you'll never cure. Just ask the two scabs during the Spirit strike.

2. If you actually do scab, you better hope F9 lasts the rest of your career, or won't mind working for the Amerijet's of the world.

3. Once your name is on a scab list, I would personally do everything I could to ensure you never work at my airline. Most pilots will do the same to you once you decide to scab.

Think real freaking hard dude.

Carl

 

Nope he’s not an F9 pilot. Maybe an FA, but he’s definitely not a pilot. Lucky for the RAH guys FA’s can’t deny them the jump seat.

 

Wow. A RAH pilot calling someone a "Scab". Pot, meet Kettle.

 

I sorta wish it was going to be "unicorns and butterflies" from this point forward, but I seriously doubt it.

I don't think that the native RAH IBT'ers (and many F9'ers) understand the events that have occurred since October of 2009 and their affect on the FAPA group.

In Oct 09, everyone was summoned to IND for discussions that were extremely premature and produced nothing.

After that came the long, drawn out process of the SLI.

I've said this before, but in January, the RAH IBT (most, if not all, former 747 officers or appointees) spent approximately 1 hour in the room at the first week long "negotiation" meeting in Dallas before declaring they would not meet with the other 3 unions at the same time.

It was a classic divide and conquer strategy but instead of making the IBT more accessable and trying to strike individual deals with each union, it actually united ALPA, UTU and FAPA against RAH IBT. The IBT initial proposal was insane by any standard, placing somewhere between 1,100 and 1,300 RAH pilots at the top with everyone else stapled. That set the tone for subsequent interactions.

In Febuary, we had "mediation" in Sarasota, scheduled to begin on a Monday and finishing on Friday. The RAH IBT told FAPA that they couldn't make it on Monday because it was Valentines Day weekend and one of their officers had a wedding anniversary, they actually laughed while saying this.

So IBT showed up on Tuesday, talked to the Mediator for a couple of hours over the period of a couple days and left early, on Thursday afternoon. The Mediator said, "They're on a whole different planet than the other 3 unions." The IBT modified their proposal to putting somewhere between 600 and 800 of their pilots on top (it might have been between 700 and 900, I don't recall exactly). They met with the other unions for approximately 1 hour that week.

Don't forget, we were all paying a portion of the fees, including the IBT membership or, more than likely, National was picking up the bill as 747/357 had no money at that point. I believe that the Mediator only charged us $22,000 for that week because he went home each night, so there was no per deim.

Now we're off to DCA for arbitration. That is a confrontational process no matter who is arbitrating what. The Arbitrator repeatedly urged all parties to make an attempt to negotiate an agreement as, "Whatever you come up with, it will be better than what I will decide."

The IBT showed NO interest in talking with any of the other unions.

FAPA has been accused of delaying the process at every opportunity, but the RAH IBT SME, Robert Mann, was SO wrong in so many facts and graphs, it took a couple of days just to cross examine him. He showed profits that were losses, losses that were profits, inverted graphs and was an extremely hostile witness. You had to drag every bit of information out of him and generally he wouldn't answer a question without a 5 to 10 minute dissertation.

So, we had to have a second round with the Arbitrator. I believe he was charging $35,000 a week for his "services" and could only fit our arbitrations in every other month - that was his delay.

We STILL had not heard from RAH Corporate or FAPA's case at the end of that period (I don't remember if that was a full week or not, I think it was shorter).

So, two months later we're back in DCA. The Arbitrator stated at the beginning of that session that we WOULD complete the arbitration in this session. FAPA actually had to shorten our case to meet his self imposed restriction (although at $35,000 a week, I don't know what his hurry was).

RAH IBT never reached out to any other union until we got in a tiff over LOA 39, then they started trying to peel ALPA and UTU off from our semi-alliance. To the best of my knowledge, it was too little, too late.

Then came the opinion and "award." ALPA, UTU, FAPA and Tier 3 pilots at RAH all thought they got screwed. Tier one and two RAH pilots were ecstatic, the award didn't follow any of Eischen's written opinion and they got more than they could have ever hoped for.

During the process, against the Arbitrator's order, RAH IBT released the final proposals. RAH IBT, in spite of the agreed upon process, filed for Single Carrier Status. They have acted in a completely self-serving manner, violated orders from the Arbitrator and every agreement made with the other unions.

Outside the rooms, they behaved in a very unprofessional manner (I guess the "no alcohol expenses" policy wasn't in effect at that time), were racist and misogynistic.

FAPA reached out to the 357 ExCo and IBT National to come to a mutually beneficial arrangement on representation, only to be rebuffed at every attempt.

So, now the IBT has won their election. Given the past attitudes and behavior, I have no idea why the IBT, Local 357 or any RAH pilot would expect any enthusiasm or cooperation from a single Frontier pilot. As someone said, "This isn't a marriage, it's a rape."

357's first point of discussion was how they were going to transfer FAPA's dues money to their general fund. That's $2.2 million of OUR pilot's dues to a union that has been so mismanaged that they have a whooping $300,000 in their coffers. They had to make an assessment just to pay a Negotiator.

Does it really seem reasonable to try to take our money to prop up a failing union? The primary reason to take our money is to keep FAPA from using that money to ensure the IBT doesn't sell Frontier pilots, individually or collectively, down the river.

It's going to be a long couple of years.

 

We're both looking at the argument through our own personal filters and we're just going to go round and round making more and more poorer and poorer analogies.

PM me and and we can sit and BS over few beers during a DEN overnight and hopefully have a enjoy a more coherent (my fault on muddying it up) and adult (ditto) conversation.

 

Just in case you missed it... Roundup called himself a Scab.

 

Look up the word SCAB as it relates to pilot unions and show me where RAH pilots flew struck work. And don't give me some twisted answer as to how you interpret the word SCAB in relation to RAH pilots to assuage your own personal bitterness.

 

Nicely put F9 319.