Surprise! IBT decides a Joint Council works
11-06-2011, 02:27 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
Originally Posted by skygrl67
We We need one union representing us all. I could care less which one.
11-06-2011, 03:25 PM
#32
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 10
See, I heard AFA knows they would be outnumbered and couldn't afford to have another vote especially to lose. Like I said, Rah Fas aren't going to stand for 2 unions and are asking for a vote. We shall see what happens soon hopefully!
11-06-2011, 04:51 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: What day is it?
Posts: 963
Originally Posted by F9 A319
We didn't go "begging" to give concessions, we met with the Company, listened to their proposal, reviewed the financials and agreed to concessions. The concessions we agreed to won't affect anyone else's ability to negotiate a contract in the future.
At this time, we have to worry about our future, not the industry's. If you're a student of the industry, you'll remember all the promises UAL ALPA made to the old Frontier pilots, only to betray them in the end. There are tons of examples of every size of pilot group looking out for their best interests as opposed to trading their jobs for the faceless "industry pilots."
Again, have you read LOA 67? There's nothing in there even remotely close to "selling our soul."
Been where longer than I have? At RAH?
The IBT created such an adversarial, confrontational with RAH management that they have been essentially useless in dealing with RAH Management on any issue that could benefit their membership and/or the Company. Line hour reduction LOA excluded, but then that didn't go exactly as planned, did it?
Or are you talking about the industry? I have been flying professionally for 31 years and have studied the industry as much as anyone I know. I have held every position a pilot can hold. Management, Line pilot, Sim and Line CAM and 5 different union positions over 11 years.
Would you like the Bio on Sneddon, Eve, Craig or Wilder?
Excellent word dude! I had to look it up. I think you might be putting more emotion, more emphasis and far too much hyperbole into this entire situation.....
At this time, we have to worry about our future, not the industry's. If you're a student of the industry, you'll remember all the promises UAL ALPA made to the old Frontier pilots, only to betray them in the end. There are tons of examples of every size of pilot group looking out for their best interests as opposed to trading their jobs for the faceless "industry pilots."
Again, have you read LOA 67? There's nothing in there even remotely close to "selling our soul."
Been where longer than I have? At RAH?
The IBT created such an adversarial, confrontational with RAH management that they have been essentially useless in dealing with RAH Management on any issue that could benefit their membership and/or the Company. Line hour reduction LOA excluded, but then that didn't go exactly as planned, did it?
Or are you talking about the industry? I have been flying professionally for 31 years and have studied the industry as much as anyone I know. I have held every position a pilot can hold. Management, Line pilot, Sim and Line CAM and 5 different union positions over 11 years.
Would you like the Bio on Sneddon, Eve, Craig or Wilder?
Excellent word dude! I had to look it up. I think you might be putting more emotion, more emphasis and far too much hyperbole into this entire situation.....
Those of us who do have 30 plus years of industry experience remember too well how our pilot groups were hit with the concessions of others that were used as a basis for management to demand even more out of us. We also remember well the groups who voluntarily started the race to the bottom. You speak of IBT contracts as bad news; yet you stonewall and refuse to admit that contracts negotiated since 2009 are radically different than the past...which is what you hold on to in desperation to make your feeble case.
Skygrl is right. You COULD have gone to SWA, but you blew that too. BB bought you from the bankruptcy heap and IBT won the election. You had opportunities to join and run candidates; you chose to sit, cry and blame everyone else.
The F/A's will work it out. You guys will still be standing there and threatening to hold your breath until everyone else turns blue...help yourself.
11-06-2011, 07:44 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
Would those be the financials that the IBT's Economic folks looked at and said that there was no need for the concessions as BB already had what he needed?
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
Those of us who do have 30 plus years of industry experience remember too well how our pilot groups were hit with the concessions of others that were used as a basis for management to demand even more out of us. We also remember well the groups who voluntarily started the race to the bottom. You speak of IBT contracts as bad news; yet you stonewall and refuse to admit that contracts negotiated since 2009 are radically different than the past...which is what you hold on to in desperation to make your feeble case.
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
Skygrl is right. You COULD have gone to SWA, but you blew that too.
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
BB bought you from the bankruptcy heap and IBT won the election. You had opportunities to join and run candidates; you chose to sit, cry and blame everyone else.
I hate to be repetitive, but have you read LOA 67? I wouldn't keep asking if you would simply answer.
Keep working on the quoting thingy, it would make your posts much more understandable and perhaps even allow you to make a point, ask a specific question or answer a specific question. You can do it!
Last edited by F9 A319; 11-06-2011 at 07:57 PM.
11-06-2011, 09:10 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Posts: 879
Originally Posted by ATCsaidDoWhat
Would those be the financials that the IBT's Economic folks looked at and said that there was no need for the concessions as BB already had what he needed?
11-07-2011, 06:34 PM
#36
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: May 2011
Posts: 63
I have no idea who this ATC guy is, but I know the RAH IBT folks and they know me.
ATC has gone off the deep end because he knows his beloved Union is a bunch of hypocrites.
ATC, I realize that LOA 67 was two pages long so I will provide a Cliffs Notes version.
No hourly pay rates were changed.
No work rules were changed (our work rules and 6.2% DC contribution have not been touched, even during BK)
Frontier pilots gave up a percentage of sick accrual, vacation accrual, 401k match and some pilots gave up one year of longevity. Some of our pilots did not participate in the longevity freeze, while other previously furloughed pilots had their original longevity reestablished. We represented our entire seniority list, furloughed thru number one, and agreed upon an LOA that works.
So, we "sold out the profession" by giving up a fraction of sick accrual?
ATC, you should probably check your narrow body rates, and your DC/DB accruals, and your work rules, before claiming that anyone has sold out.
On a related topic, I had the benefit of sharing a jumpseat with one of your Omni crew members. (UAL 75 with two JS)
Keep in mind, I am a nobody and this gent had no clue about my personal feelings about the ibt. Guess what....
The Omni TA that you (as a non-Omni pilot) claim is great, is actually a gigantic POS.
ATC, you are not Frontier, or Republic, or Omni, but you claim that the IBt is great and all other alternatives are failures.....
"How easy it is to judge rightly after one sees what evil comes from judging wrongly!"
ATC has gone off the deep end because he knows his beloved Union is a bunch of hypocrites.
ATC, I realize that LOA 67 was two pages long so I will provide a Cliffs Notes version.
No hourly pay rates were changed.
No work rules were changed (our work rules and 6.2% DC contribution have not been touched, even during BK)
Frontier pilots gave up a percentage of sick accrual, vacation accrual, 401k match and some pilots gave up one year of longevity. Some of our pilots did not participate in the longevity freeze, while other previously furloughed pilots had their original longevity reestablished. We represented our entire seniority list, furloughed thru number one, and agreed upon an LOA that works.
So, we "sold out the profession" by giving up a fraction of sick accrual?
ATC, you should probably check your narrow body rates, and your DC/DB accruals, and your work rules, before claiming that anyone has sold out.
On a related topic, I had the benefit of sharing a jumpseat with one of your Omni crew members. (UAL 75 with two JS)
Keep in mind, I am a nobody and this gent had no clue about my personal feelings about the ibt. Guess what....
The Omni TA that you (as a non-Omni pilot) claim is great, is actually a gigantic POS.
ATC, you are not Frontier, or Republic, or Omni, but you claim that the IBt is great and all other alternatives are failures.....
"How easy it is to judge rightly after one sees what evil comes from judging wrongly!"
11-08-2011, 03:19 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Posts: 206
Originally Posted by FAULTPUSH
Regarding LOA 67, the vacation accrual reduction seems close to meaningless to me because 5 days of vacation covers a 4 day trip or a 5 day reserve block just as well as 7 days of vacation.
I can't believe you guys told him all the secrets about LOA 67. I so wanted him to have to go to IBT Nation's archive and read it for himself.
And RPC, you're right, ATC doesn't work for F9, RAH, Omni or any other airline. So, where do you suppose he gets all his IBT info, my guess is from his employer.
12-15-2011, 04:50 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,097
F9 pilots...quickly becoming to be known as a bunch of "whiners and spoiled brats" when they don't get their way.....as told to me by a UAL crew while deadheading home. They laughed out loud when I told them F9 has CA's (seat only, not stature) that are also into denying jumpseats due to lanyard wearing. Keep up the good work kids. PLEASE SEPARATE US SOON BEDFORD!!! Let these kids fail on their own!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
BrownGirls YUM
Cargo
3
01-14-2008 08:57 PM
