SuperConductor

Me either. I think there's an awful lot of unprovable rhetoric swirling this thread.

This country needs to own its air transportation industry once more. I think the Unions are the ones to provide the voice to get it done, in part.

Other Western civilized countries pay their students to go through flight school. Lufthansa pays for $30K and lends the future contracted pilot another $30K, repayable at 0% interest over the course of the contract. I don't know how many years. In fact Germany entitles many citizens to highly subsidized, if not even free, college level educations. And just look-a-dem! Those lazy Germans are dragging down a perfectly great continent. Schweine Hunde!!

Grumble

Yeah and Greeks all get to go to college for free, hows that working out? Lufthansa is also a state run airline that still must be profitible to survive. And the training contract is substantially larger than your quote, entry level pay is terrible, and they don't have any affordable GA to feed their industry from rediculous gov't regulation (where we're headed) which requires this ab-initio program, which by the way you probably wouldn't be a pilot if we had such a thing in this country.

It all makes sense now... jeebus. You obviously did ZERO research in what you were getting yourself into.

JamesNoBrakes

Sure, but they didn't know how much a CFI earns, how steady the work is, how random it can be, how long they'd have to wait until getting hired by an airline, how many years they'd have to spend earning low wages, and so on. Except for websites like this, there just isn't that much out there, and you expect busy pilots to tell kids about this? These kids are 17-18 with no real concept about how the industry works, because of the industry, the schools, and others that want that steady stream of cheap pilots/business. Maybe I'm just a stupid idiot, but I didn't really understand the industry, and this is when you get that loan and get the "committed" mindset.

Once again, you can't be discharged from federally backed loans. That is what this thread is about.

JamesNoBrakes

They need to start with paying pilots a salary, not hourly wages.

SuperConductor

Your point? btw, you misspelled "Profitable"

Prove it.

(Edit in, after original post) Here, just to make you look the way you are....I found it. It is a total of $60K. Obviously FAR less in grand total once paid back. My uncle is an A320 check pilot for them so I know it's interest free. How do I know? I talked to him about it. Here's the link. A private loan taken out for that same amount would become a $200,000 debt before it was all paid off, here in the USA.

http://www.be-lufthansa.com/fileadmi...LH_E_Pilot.pdf

Lie. You start at Lufthansa MAIN LINE. Not City Line or any regional. Check your facts like I do, and link them, before spewing them. First year FO pay at LH is e64K/an. That about $85K/an. Take your histrionics somewhere else.

http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/jobs...erman_Airlines

You misspelled "Ridiculous".

Always a PERFECT indication that someone if losing a battle; and taking it personally. They try to dig up what one might not think they'd like others to know. UNFORTUNATELY FOR YOU GRUMBLE, I MADE THAT INFORMATION PUBLIC BY CHOICE. In fact. I'll post it here again. All it does is make a perfect case about how little you are. LOL! You can't even stick to the facts, much less form a coherent argument.

I beat you to the punch on telling HSLD if I was union of not, making your smart comment (hubris typical of Grumble) back-fire upon you and you took it personally when I put it in your face that I did. Waaa!

I said, in a thread over 6 months old. (Shows you how much effect I have on Grumble. If there's more attraction to me, I think now would be the time to some out with it.)

"I got in some minor trouble when I was younger. In the early 90's a DWAI (Driving While Ability Impaired). Not "Drunken Driving" but alcohol related nonetheless. I had two other much smaller 4th degree misdemeanors around the same time. In 2001 I left the occupation I was in based on how unfulfilled it left me feeling. I decided to be an airline pilot. I had to go back to college and do all my flight training, from scratch. I started at age 32. I did well both in college and in flight training. I never failed an FAA written, or check-ride. I graduated with honors from an aviation program. During the process, I worked 30 hours a week, so it took a longer than I'd expected. Finally in 2008 I emerged a shiny new flight instructor, right into the jaws of a ravenous "Great Recession". I was stranded as a flight instructor for almost 4 years.



Late last year I was recruited into a regional airline jet training program. I felt lucky that the airline didn't hold my distant DWAI against me. They said, "That was, what, 2 decades ago??" I felt compelled to divulge it nonetheless. A word of caution to those hoping to out-wait a DWI offense report on your background check; I was lucky I told them because it still appeared on my FBI background check 20 years later.



Training was not easy. It was probably the most difficult thing I'd ever done. At the very end, I washed out of the training program at that regional airline. It wasn't a disaster though. I learned what the word "Anchor" meant when the training staff washed my partner out half way through the sims. They said, "We can tell you're dragging an anchor, so we're going to split you two up." Two days later he was gone. I continued, but it still put me behind. I never really was able to catch up.



As of today, I'm 42 years old and over $110,000 in student loan debt. One of my three student loan lenders sent me a court summons last month. I'm being sued. I was already working against a DWAI from two decades ago. Now on my applications I have to explain that I was "washed out" too. I owned my washout at the only airline interview I've been to since. Still didn't get the call. So much about this occupation has changed since the day I decided to become an airline pilot. Chesly Sullenberger's address to congress very well summarizes it. No need to elaborate. Thundering off to pursue my occupational dreams appears to have very well destroyed my life. If I have to "do something to correct for my washout", I'm done. I'm not going to waste another year of my life flying some light charter op. as a display of punitive penance for my "training sin". I know I'm not broken. My past training record proves that. I know I would kick butt at any training course now, especially if it were on the same type. I need "fast forwards", not "move back two spaces" in my life right now, but they just don't appear to present themselves. Sorry about the violins guys, but properly illustrating my feelings is critical too, I guess."

>Leave it up to Grumble to stoop for the stars. I've been watching you for years on this forum, Grumble, and you always do. All you bring to this forum is useless political rhetoric.

SuperConductor

It's obvious Grumble is having problems following the Co-Founders directive to move this thread along to the Union Application debate. Can I make the suggestion that he gets banned from the thread?

He's still busy struggling to find anything, JUST ANYTHING, to discredit someone he sees as an adversary who's taking him to school. There, there Grumble. I know. This whole concept scares you. Take it easy.

The thing you have to try discrediting is that Unions might not be able to help with this. You ready for that?

SuperConductor

Something unions could probably have a hand in arranging as well. I donno.

SuperConductor

Do you find your smart mouth winds you up in a lot of trouble on a personal level Grumble?

LarryDavid

So basically people are whining about not knowing what they are getting into. When choosing something as important as a career you need to look at EVERYTHING. You need a plan A, B, C, and D(I learned this the hard way). The information is out there. As always a lot of people want to have their hands held all the way.

I am sorry you washed out of training, SC, but again did you not know not everyone makes it through training, I am assuming you had no backup plan? BTW 110k in debt? I only spent 20k for training and I took out no loans.

I took out 2, sometimes 3 jobs. It wasn't easy but it was worth it not paying interest. One thing muslims have right you should avoid paying intrest to banks as much as possible. Cash is king. It took me longer than some to get through but I didn't waste a single dime making a banker/investor rich/So you swung and you missed. There are a lot of people that have failed at one thing but excelled in another.

SuperConductor

I don't think lamenting the absence of alcohol in the cockpit in an open forum is very professional Grumble.