Grumble

You're so far out in left field you should be selling hot dogs and foam fingers.

Have you actually read the Constitution? Exactly where in there is paying your obligations a violation of anything?

SuperConductor

Perhaps you should ask that same question to every airline management team which has filed for bankruptcy over the last 30 years? They have been allowed to breach contracts in their race to the bottom, and in so doing, rip-off you, and me. I mean, that is what you're arguing for....right? If they as students should be held accountable for their decisions and debts, shouldn't airline management too?

It really makes me wonder which side some of you supposed "pilots" are really on?

But for your information, the section of the XIV Amendment in questions follows;

"All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

U.S. Senate: Reference Home > Constitution of the United States

That said, it has been accordingly upheld, "No state shall deny to any person within its juristiction the equal protection of the laws."

Equal Protection Clause - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

SuperConductor

Said the pilots to the airline management team.

Grumble

You may not like it (I sure don't), but a company legally filing bankruptcy and liquidating pensions is legal. Don't like it? Run for office and change it. Write your reps and demand change.

Now pay your loans off, my tax dollars shouldn't because you can't hold up your end of the bargain, which you signed on the dotted line for.

What does any airline mgmt team have to do with whatever bank you entered into a legal obligation with for your student loans? Personal responsibility, try it some time.

SuperConductor

Now pay your pilot contract off, my income dollars shouldn't because you can't hold up your end of the bargain, which you signed on the dotted line for.

To clarify for those who might need it. Management teams dismiss their financial obligations to the employees of their company after the poor decisions leading to their messes, and students (those who may have made informed or uninformed decisions) are not afforded Equal Protection?

There is a certain group of people in the USA, I wont mention them by name, who will continue arguing despite the facts they just asked for, when presented, weighting completely against them.

Grumble

Management at company X and their agreement with their employees is a private enterprise.

Your student loans are backed (and often times funded) by the gov't, which means if you try to discharge them in BK, the taxpayers are left holding the bag.

Contrary to popular belief, the world doesn't owe you anything and you're responsible for your descisions. Lots of us on here sucked it up and paid our debts off, just like we agreed to. You're looking for sympathy in the wrong place, maybe try an Occupy protest.

HSLD

Your logic is truly dizzying, if you'd like to get back on topic and explain what help you expect labor unions to provide in terms of "help", it would be more productive for the thread.

Out of curiosity, what union do you belong to and what can you post the resolutions that you've brought so far?

SuperConductor

According to this,

S 1450 - Air Transportation Safety and System Stabilization Act - Key Vote - Project Vote Smart

...the airlines are inexorably bound to tax payers, whether they are "regulated" or not.

Was this an "unforeseen event" which lead to $5 billion in federal grants, $10 billion in loans and creation of the TSA, a $1.2 billion dollar a year endeavor? Sometimes the support of the government is a private or civil mater. Well, I'm pretty certain the destruction of this occupation, as outlined by Cap't Chesley Sullenberger wasn't exactly anticipated either. And this isn't a request for special treatment. It's a demand, once made, for Equal Treatment under the Constitution.

HSLD - In comparing this to the dichotomy of airlines making poor, or even not so poor decisions, and being able to escape their obligations through bankruptcy, and the same right not afforded to students, I'm simply bringing forward a universal example closest to all of our lives in the interest of the readers and participants being able to identify with the argument.

But yes, I'll move away from that analogy to a more obscure one if the Co-Founder should so like. But, if it's just to keep "management" away from being on the defensive, which is most likely not your intent, I'd have to wonder, who runs this site?? I mean. I noticed it's perfectly fine for the user "Jungle" to attack unions,

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/un...-up-crazy.html

but the moment anything less than friendly is said about management, it's grounds to "stop talking about it"?

SuperConductor

To respect your curiosity, I'm using this thread as part of my preliminary "argumentation process" and "landscape" test.

I'll answer the question of if I'm union or not, or which union I'm with, once Grumble and others have to answer the same question. I appreciate your curiosity on it though.

KC10 FATboy

SC you sound ridiculous you know that? Your argument holds no water. Your argument is, airlines filed for bankruptcy; therefore, I should be able to file for bankruptcy.

You assume that filing for bankruptcy means you walk away from your responsibilities. This is not the case.

Do you think all of those airlines that filed for bankruptcy had zero debt after filing bankruptcy? No, their debt was reorganized and renegotiated. Their contracts were renegotiated. Which is the same thing that is going to happen to you if you go to bankruptcy court. Why do you think that companies like DAL and UAL still have debt on their books? (they each owe roughly $12 billion in long-term debt)

Just because one lawyer argued that it wasn't constitutional, back in 1975, doesn't mean that it is.

Student loans can be discharged. I repeat, STUDENT LOANS CAN BE DISCHARGED! So the argument of equal protection is not sound.

Please answer these questions ...

Do you have cable or satellite TV?
Do you have a smartphone/data plan?
Do you have a flat screen tv?
Do you have an Xbox or other gaming device?
Do you have more than one car?
Are you driving a new or newer car?
Do you have a car payment? Motorcyle, 4-wheeler or similar toy payment?
Do you go out partying, drinking/smoking?
Do you regularly go to the movies, shopping, spending money?
Always have to have new clothes?
Do you spend your days off working having fun rather than working a second or third job?

If so, then you are clearly able to repay your debt.

It makes me sick that people like you are trying to ruin what makes this country great. I grew up in humble beginnings where my father made just over $20k/year. We did all sorts of things to get by. But I knew that getting good grades in school would be the way out. I received student loans back in the mid-late 90's and I completed my obligations; although it took me a bit longer than I wanted it to.

If you spent your time trying to figure out a way to increase your compensation rather than wasting it on ways of avoiding your obligations, we wouldn't be reading your ridiculous posts.

Again, stop the entitlement and wealth redistribution mentality.

I suggest you contact Dave Ramsey Homepage - daveramsey.com or some other financial counselor.