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Old 12-16-2012, 08:47 AM   #1
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Default Help From Unions on Student Loan Legislation

According to a Constitutional Lawyer, who argued his points before congress in 1975, it looks like banks may be violating 14th Amendment right of Equal Protection, by having made our student loans non-dischargable in bankruptcy. Well, since airline management has used their bankruptcy protection to break their promises, I think it's time for our unions to help us out. Maybe they can help us consolidate to over-turn this relatively young, and incredibly inept tool used to turn students (many of them pilots) in the USA into debt-slaves.

When many of us took out our loans, the airline were doing well. Being a pilot was always a promising career. No so any more. Not with everything that's happened in the new millennium. If unions are having such a hard time effecting pay raises, perhaps they can help us in other ways.

Here's a link to that article on the unconstitutional reality of student loan debt slavery.

Moe Tkacik: Student Debt
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:56 AM   #2
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+1. Although senators have tried to raise this point, it continues to be a mute point to congress.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:00 AM   #3
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+1. Although senators have tried to raise this point, it continues to be a mute point to congress.
Good point. I think, however, the political landscape could be rapidly changing. it's not a secret anymore that the student loan debt bubble is not only helping kill our economy now, but it threatens to be the next trillion dollar bail-out. And it'll all be to the banks that get bailed again if we don't do something about it first.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:12 AM   #4
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Yes, there are a multitude of fixes to a complex problem like education and student loans...But what can we as consumers do?

Maybe we stop spending money at over priced institutions, stop enrolling in majors that have atrocious return on investment, practice a little financial self control and live like a college student not a Kardashian while in college?

A few anecdotes come to mind;

First, the guy who complained how outrageous learning to fly was (at a rather cheap mom and pop flight school by the way), but still *had* to have the crotch rocket bike, nice car, etc...Priorities??

My sister who was warned NOT to get a four year psych degree unless she was ready to get a Masters/Doctorate or knew how she was going to use it....Now she is graduated, can't find a job, mad at the world, and has a bunch of student loan debt.

My best friend who has been attempting a bachelor degree in art for 10 years with NO end in sight, pretty much living off loan money. He's ****ed off at the world and the educational system for bringing him down.

My dad (and others) who proclaim their hatred of Wal Mart for destroying businesses and jobs, but still shop pretty much exclusively at Wal Mart.

Finally, any call in episode of Suzy Ormann.
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:05 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperConductor View Post
According to a Constitutional Lawyer, who argued his points before congress in 1975, it looks like banks may be violating 14th Amendment right of Equal Protection, by having made our student loans non-dischargable in bankruptcy. Well, since airline management has used their bankruptcy protection to break their promises, I think it's time for our unions to help us out. Maybe they can help us consolidate to over-turn this relatively young, and incredibly inept tool used to turn students (many of them pilots) in the USA into debt-slaves.

When many of us took out our loans, the airline were doing well. Being a pilot was always a promising career. No so any more. Not with everything that's happened in the new millennium. If unions are having such a hard time effecting pay raises, perhaps they can help us in other ways.

Here's a link to that article on the unconstitutional reality of student loan debt slavery.

Moe Tkacik: Student Debt
I read this post while deadheading to my next flight. I am thankful I had 24 hours off before operating the flight because my blood pressure shot through the roof and I would have been unfit for duty! There are people who die trying to get to this country (legal and illegally) for its opportunities and you refer to them as slavery! Could you be anymore spoiled?

First, student loans can be discharged but you have to prove that paying the debt will impose undue hardship to you and/or your dependents. This is not easily done because when it comes to student loans, they are several different payment options to help you pay them back. Also, student loans can be put into forbearance and deferment. And in 2007, they started the Student Loan Forgiveness program (don't get me started on that).

So you can't afford $25/month? $100/month? I had student loans and at one time in my life I used one of the above payment options to help me through a bad financial time. I am speaking from having been there.

Second, think twice before you jump to conclusions and file bankruptcy, Ch7 or Ch13. Thankfully, it isn't as easy to file anymore. You ruin your credit for up to ten years which could impact buying a home, renting an apartment etc.etc. It could take up to five years to complete the bankruptcy process. You may lose your car and other possessions. Lastly, many companies do background checks and a recent bankruptcy filing is a huge red flag.

You are owed nothing. Stop this entitlement mentality. You are the type of person that is bringing this country to its knees.

I suggest Dave Ramsey Homepage - daveramsey.com or some other financial counselor before you go filing.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #6
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^^^This^^^

Over, and over, and over.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:56 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by block30 View Post
Yes, there are a multitude of fixes to a complex problem like education and student loans...But what can we as consumers do?

Maybe we stop spending money at over priced institutions, stop enrolling in majors that have atrocious return on investment, practice a little financial self control and live like a college student not a Kardashian while in college?

A few anecdotes come to mind;

First, the guy who complained how outrageous learning to fly was (at a rather cheap mom and pop flight school by the way), but still *had* to have the crotch rocket bike, nice car, etc...Priorities??

My sister who was warned NOT to get a four year psych degree unless she was ready to get a Masters/Doctorate or knew how she was going to use it....Now she is graduated, can't find a job, mad at the world, and has a bunch of student loan debt.

My best friend who has been attempting a bachelor degree in art for 10 years with NO end in sight, pretty much living off loan money. He's ****ed off at the world and the educational system for bringing him down.

My dad (and others) who proclaim their hatred of Wal Mart for destroying businesses and jobs, but still shop pretty much exclusively at Wal Mart.

Finally, any call in episode of Suzy Ormann.
Yes. All funny points. Student consumers need to be responsible as well.

But I restate the point. "When many of us took out our loans, the airline were doing well. Being a pilot was always a promising career. Not so any more. Not with everything that's happened in the new millennium."

Further. The banking lobby has found fit, once again, to trample constitutional rights. This is a naked example of rent-seeing extractionism.

Let's not point out the exceptions here. Let's stick to the rule and the facts. Those cases pointed out above, are extreme. I think 90% of us handled ourselves accordingly. If we can create justice for the 90% then I call that an "A".
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:38 PM   #8
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There are people who die trying to get to this country (legal and illegally) for its opportunities and you refer to them as slavery! Could you be anymore spoiled?
Could you be any more out of touch? Those people who would "die" to get into this country are mostly Mexicans or Haitians who, if they don't, will probably get killed in the drug wars back home. I can't think of ANY people from France, England, Germany, Canada, or any myriad of other Western civilized countries that are "risking death" to get to the USA. Cut the 1960's Cuban floatilla rhetoric and come to terms with the fact that this country ain't what it used to be. Sober yourself. Poverty in the USA is at a higher level than it's been since 1964.

I have SO MUCH education to dish to you my friend. First. All this....

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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post
First, student loans can be discharged but you have to prove that paying the debt will impose undue hardship to you and/or your dependents. This is not easily done because when it comes to student loans, they are several different payment options to help you pay them back. Also, student loans can be put into forbearance and deferment. And in 2007, they started the Student Loan Forgiveness program (don't get me started on that). So you can't afford $25/month? $100/month? I had student loans and at one time in my life I used one of the above payment options to help me through a bad financial time. I am speaking from having been there.
....only applies to The good ol' days when people actually DID risk their lives to get into the USA who weren't threatened with certain death unless they did. Since the passage of the laws privatizing student loans in the 1990's the game has changed.

Moe Tkacik: Student Debt

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Originally Posted by KC10 FATboy View Post
Second, think twice before you jump to conclusions and file bankruptcy, Ch7 or Ch13. Thankfully, it isn't as easy to file anymore. You ruin your credit for up to ten years which could impact buying a home, renting an apartment etc.etc. It could take up to five years to complete the bankruptcy process. You may lose your car and other possessions. Lastly, many companies do background checks and a recent bankruptcy filing is a huge red flag.
Noted. Thank you.

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You are owed nothing. Stop this entitlement mentality. You are the type of person that is bringing this country to its knees.
We are owed "nothing"?? Hello? We are owed our Constitutional rights! You seem to think that human beings with beating hearts (Not some contrived notion that somehow corporations are people) are costing America its doom. Turn around and look at the sense of entitlement that actually IS. Corporate entitlement. That which VASTLY outweighs social service programs. In 2009 corporate welfare cost American Tax Payers $92 billion. That same years, social welfare, $52. Here's that link.

Welfare Statistics: Government Spends More on Corporate Welfare Than..

The problem with corporate welfare is so bad that even the conservatively biased Forbes Magazine ran an article titled,

Where to Cut the Federal Budget? Start by Killing Corporate Welfare - Forbes

So if you feel like tooting the horn of "You are owed nothing", toot it in the right direction, or forever be considered a friend to the Rent Seeking.

Rent-seeking - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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I suggest Dave Ramsey Homepage - daveramsey.com or some other financial counselor before you go filing.
I suggest you step out of the 80's and get with the times. In order to redistribute the wealth of the majority into the hands of the minority, corporations have made what was once illegal, legal.

This thread is about helping hard working pilots, not protecting people who claim to be hard working and in the process extract the nations wealth into ever deepening pockets.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:34 PM   #9
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Just an admonishment at this point. The rules of this forum prohibit "political posts" that said, I responded to a post with political implications. I suggest we move away from the political side of this discussion while no party has yet crossed that line. CoOl? cOoL.
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Old 12-17-2012, 05:26 PM   #10
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Yes. All funny points. Student consumers need to be responsible as well.

But I restate the point. "When many of us took out our loans, the airline were doing well. Being a pilot was always a promising career. Not so any more. Not with everything that's happened in the new millennium."

Further. The banking lobby has found fit, once again, to trample constitutional rights. This is a naked example of rent-seeing extractionism.

Let's not point out the exceptions here. Let's stick to the rule and the facts. Those cases pointed out above, are extreme. I think 90% of us handled ourselves accordingly. If we can create justice for the 90% then I call that an "A".

I'm not taking the counter point for the sake of being a d*ck, but to my view point, the economic crash of 2008 really showed a lot of financial "bad behavior" at many levels and for large groups.

I wish I had the stats in front of me-obviously much better than my anecdotes-but didn't the majority of Americans have a negative savings rate? Just one example.

The housing boom and crash, yet another example. And I believe Suzy Ormann titled a book about living "Young, Fabulous, and Broke." I further remember watching a show something like the 'Ten People Who Caused the Econonmic Meltdown'...and the 10th face was "You," that is, the American public.

Hey, I see what you are saying-schools and loans are out of whack. Schools make larger than life promises, and promote worthless degrees...Aviation pay, generally speaking is out of whack, too.

My hope is that, if we are calling on government intervention, we first turn inward to try to make capitalism work a little... Stop patronizing businesses, institutions, schools, and college majors that don't make financial sense. Be more thrifty.

P.S. Believe me, Suzy Ormann is not my oracle of financial knowledge, but listening to the call ins to her show is usually pretty mind blowing. Especially the folks with good incomes that are waaaay in debt!
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