SpecialTracking

In a nutshell, the law of diminishing returns.

Scrappy

https://www.google.com/amp/s/skift.c...?client=safari

No sweat - disagree all you'd like. The large number of pax (and increasing) that travel on Alaska to the four islands will disagree with you.

I don't like or dislike the 737 on routes from the coast to Hawaii but they certainly have been successful now for a number of years.

DaBest

Simple, if you are not happy, feel like you can't achieve anything, not your kind of flying, best solution is to find another job or career that will bring you that satisfaction.

In regards to equipment; again, you knew what you were getting into, and B737 has been proven to be safe enough and efficient for the flying it does. Don't like it, don't fly it. If you feel strongly about safety, bring it up with FSAP, contact Union safety, talk to UAL safety, contact your congressman, go public. I really don't know what is your point.
Pilot preference in equipment is not management problem.
There are plenty of people, that would like to drive BMW M760i xDrive Sedan because of its safety features, but settle for Toyota Camry, or Ford Taurus.
Airlines are about economics in the most safe and economical form. You can't argue that Toyota or Ford is unsafe to drive, just because you don't like those cars.

In regards to your comments about trickle down economics. UAL is not a country, it's business for profit. Yes, it's design to trickle down from stock holders, BOD and officers down to janitors. If the whole system does well, we hope the rest of employees will benefit as well as part of the overall system of essential scheme to operate.

I believe that airline pilots are the most lucky in organized labor. Show me another corporation where an employee gets paid by the time spent on the property, and not by the level of performance, experience, knowledge and education level.
An average pay for employees with a Doctorate (PhD) Degree is $140K, a rocket scientist makes on average $130K, PhD in Chemistry or Physics $160K depends on field (corporate or gov.). What is an average salary of UA pilot nowadays? $190K and no college degree necessary!

Before you start talking about 9/11 pay cuts, furloughs, hardship, etc, just think about it; amongst those unlucky ones furloughed twice (less then 1500), almost 6000 pilots still worked for UAL since 90s making on average $130K plus benefits, when national average was $35K no benefits, no 401K matching. What about all those flying heavy in UAL for the past 20 years, they didn't even felt any pain. Pilots get 12 days off minimum, and 3 weeks vacation, what is national average in US?

There are so many individuals here calling themselves conservatives; attacking social security, entitlements, handouts, attacking auto industry and unions; yet they receive full pensions from USDOD, and enjoy above average union negotiated salary and benefits and still asking for more.

I don't believe in trickle down economy or distribution of wealth; I believe in paying for education, experience, and performance, I believe that individuals willing to work hard and being dedicated should be appropriately rewarded for it.
I believe we are experiencing the best in US airline industry you'll ever see, and the only way, from this point, is down. We are appropriately compensated and taking care of nowadays, and we really don't have much to complain about.
We fly newer and better equipment with the least amount of MELs, we have great network, and good MX support. We do have to improve customer service though.
I don't feel any pressure or repercussions if I refuse an aircraft or ask for revised route, add or subtract fuel and get new OFP, we have total control over A/C operation. Pilots are fully entrusted to operate and manage multi million dollars assets with crew and entrusted with customers safety; pilot have total jurisdiction.

It's strange, how pilots go through their career with different idea of safety at the specific job and flying experience. I never heard pilots complaining or refuse a flight, because of danger executing a mission inside hot zones with possible SAM units, or small arms fire. Never heard a pilots complaining about safety while flying cancel bank checks at night in icing with broken boots, and questionable cockpit lights, having to use a flash lights mounted to their DC. Never met a pilots in regional airlines flying RJs into Mexico at night complain about it, as much as pilots in UAL. But the moment they get into legacies, they all becoming concern about safety of flight when overhead dome light is MELd. Guys adding 10K more fuel for safety, but don't even consider, the extra 10K will require 3300 of extra burn at 8 hours of flight and higher engine thrust on take off - higher EGT. Just look at what happens to the turbine temperature when you increase your EPR by only 0.1! All Pilots think, they are smarter then the system, but collective thinking is better then individual. That of course comes with personality; majority of us are type A.
So, yes, it upsets me, when pilots continue to complain and I hear people like you saying B737 is unsafe to fly. Quit, that is all I have to tell you, because I see no solution to your problem, and no way we can make pilots like you happy.
Yes, I'll get a lot of heat from the rest of the complainers on this site, for my views. So..., whatever, cry me a river and quit. We are all replaceable, so enjoy what you have, try to make this place more enjoyable to work, and enjoy your passion for flying. As you so eloquently put it, with advancement in technology in modern aviation, safety goes up; therefore, there is less demand for experienced pilots; as we all will soon experience with an increase in competition from Europe and Middle East.

oldmako

I stopped reading right here.

I suppose using this logic that all those pilots before us who pushed hard for onboard weather radar, meaningful rest regs, TCAS, EGPWS, etc etc etc should have just quit as well? Where would we be now if that was the case? First time I heard that "just quit" argument was from Glenn Tilton. It was lame then, its even worse now considering that its coming from fellow pilots. And, how often its being bandied about.

Fatigued? Just quit! Too chicken to bore through that big cell on final? Just quit! "What do you mean we need to be deiced? That will blow right off...you should just quit".

You might have made some decent points in your rebuttal, but I missed them.

Shrek

It is........
"See they do it !!" Is not an adequate argument from a safety standpoint.

Shrek

Bingo !! ......

DaBest

You know exactly what I meant!
If you have a valid complain about safety, bring in on; there are plenty of ways to get your safety concerns across.
I'm asking; What is the biggest safety concern nowadays? Why are we complaining so much?!
I can assure you, that any safety related issues, are taken very seriously; safety is our business!
I don't undermine the struggles of the past, to get to this point. Furthermore, most of the improvements came accross as a blood economics; a consequences of human factors, equipment failures, inadequate or faulty engineering, lack of standardized procedures, lack of knowledge about the phenomena, lack of experience, or lack of cooperation amongst pilots and crew, commonly known nowadays as CRM.
History shows that lack of proper CRM and culture of authority (CA is the king) lead to human factor accidents.
Many of pilots protests and complains are usually related to contracts, pay and benefits, or none compliance with CBA. I have yet to see pilots walking the line due to safety related issues. Majority improvements in safety in modern aviation is a consequence of what happen and governmental regulation, due to public outcry. Safety is good for airline business, and economics. Yes, there is a formula for FAA airworthiness directives and economical impact vs safety margin, but FAA will never admit it. Not, too long ago, FAA primary mission statement was "Promoting an Air Commerce" not safety, as they believed NTSB was in the business of safety.
If you want, I can recommend few books about airline safety, history of aviation safety, and progress in aviation safety systems.
You simply give pilots and yourself too much credit for safety improvements; statistics and history disagree.
Pilots, with type A personality were major contributors to mishaps, with United CRM we started to see an improvements in safety.
But it wasn't implemented as a result of United Pilots pushed for CRM, it was recommended by NTSB after investigating a United 173 crash in 1978. Again, a consequence of an event. United has become a world leader in CRM, not because pilots were walking the line demanding an improvement in safety, but because it was good for business.
Pilots are good data collectors, but they always struggle with conforming to standards because everlasting battle between type A personality and standardization (somebody else is telling you what to do). That is why we continue to improve CRM and continue our training stressing importance of adherence to SOP.

SpecialTracking

Jesus.....

DaBest

In this case; just because you haven't had an automobile accident today; it doesn't mean you won't have it tomorrow.
That is why we collect the data and continuing improving safety margins. Just like every next gen automobile has an improvement in safety features.
However, thinking like that should make you stay home and don't go out, as you may potentially get involved in accident.
But wait! Did you know that statistically over 18,000 americans die at home every year due to:
Falls
Poisonings
Suffocation
Drowning
Inadequate railings and banisters
Unsafe storage of medications
Water heaters set too high
Firearms improperly stored or locked up
...and over 21 Million Americans that survive accidents, visit an emergency rooms, adding up to $220 billion in medical costs

Agin, this is an absurd!

SpecialTracking

Okay, I just have to know after reading your impressive posts. How long have you been at United?