![]() |
Remind me what we got in return for accepting Field Standby? Was it less because " they will never use it"?
|
Originally Posted by Dragon7
(Post 2338604)
Remind me what we got in return for accepting Field Standby? Was it less because " they will never use it"?
now you don't get paid for the first two, but get paid an hour for any after that. (whether you break guarantee or not) I would love it to see some historical analysis on which of those methods proved to be more lucrative for the pilots. I realize there have been many other changes (FAR 117) but we certainly seem to have more FSBs now than in the past. |
As I understand in their last contract, SWA got some significant, yuge even, improvements to reserve, anyone know what they gave up?
|
Originally Posted by MasterOfPuppets
(Post 2314914)
We have three threads on this board that have turned into reserve threads. So lets start our own conversation.
I will start by saying that I don't mind being on reserve and bid the 787 knowing full well I would be on it for years. I understand that SC is necessary and will always commute in to be available. I also understand FSB may be necessary sometimes and sit in ops as required. The requirements of reserves are the same at every airline and will never change. With that said the issue at United is the lack of rules for reserves and the confusion it causes within the pilot ranks and scheduling. There are 3 "Quick Question about legality" threads and 2 RSV handholding sticky threads on the front page of the other forum. If RSV is so good and the best its ever been why is there so much confusion 5 years in to our contract? Its because there are no rules or examples in the contract its a free for all. Scheduling owns pilots on reserve from midnight on the first day until midnight on the last day plus all of there RDOs and FDOs. Its out of control. Here are some examples: 1. They schedule so many SCs every day that they run out of coverage for last minute flights. EX: Just 2 days ago. 10+ RSV in SFO 787FO with 4-6 days of availability, all were given a SC and at 8pm CDG opened for the next day, so who was available to cover it only a 2 day guy. He was rolled 2 days. Thats stupid, and uncalled for. 2. Scheduling waits until midnight the day before to build and assign SCs because of the 15hr rule. If the assignment is build within 15hrs its assignable immediately. they sit all day to make sure flying is covered then send out phone calls that wake everyone up at midnight to assign a SC for the next day. Do they really not know whats going to happen on an international fleet more than 10 hrs out? 3. They schedule the 1 and 2 day pilots for the 7am SC. The only trips that SC covers is the 5/6 day HGH and CTU. If you get called out for that trip you are getting 4-5 days rolled. They do this because they can give reserves their 36hrs free from duty away from base. EX: I have sat SC for three days out of 4 then was sent on a 6 day HGH SC. I was at work for 9 days straight. The kicker? There were several 5-6 day pilots on RSV that day but they were all on 8pm SCs. The overbuilding of SCs is causing coverage issues and the pilots pay for it. I could keep going but those are three first hand examples of what I consider unacceptable scheduling practices allowed by our contract. Four things could be fixed in our contract and we would have the best reserve rules in the industry: 1. All SCs and FSB MUST be built by 11am the day prior with exception given to IROPS. this allows planning for the pilots life. 2. A cap on SCs assigned per month. If you want more than the cap have it, pick up as many as you want. 3. Every SC and FSB should be considered duty, 117 considers it duty, and should be paid at 5hrs toward guarantee. 4. SCs SHALL be built based on historic needs. With start times and number assigned that make sense with fleet/base/seat. This would prevent scheduling from putting a pilot on SC just because. One day I'm going to be VERY senior and I will still fight for the junior pilot. As Oldmako said "I want to leave this place in better shape than I had it". I want the Reserve FO sitting next to me to look over at me and say life is good! I want to see pilots fly the aircraft they want and do the type of flying they want in the seat they want without worry of QOL. These changes are not unobtainable and I will allow my union reps to negotiate. These items are also not a automatic no or yes for me, they are just things I would like to see. There is difference between complaining and *****ing. Complaining is annoying and gets nothing accomplished, most people that complain have no ideas on how to fix the problem. *****ing gets results because most people who ***** have an idea on how to make it better. I have yet to see anyone on this board complain about reserve. So lets pull together as a pilot group in 2019 and figure out how to make EVERY section of the contract bette from the #1 pilot to the #13,000 pilot. |
market based solution
here's a proposal
have the neg cmtee seek in the next contract a "commuter election." pilots can elect to work under the in-base or commuting option. then adjust pay rates to reflect the desired work rules, reserve rules, and commuter flight options. cost it all out. if some pilots want to commute and have their "improvements", they can accept the cost. if others want to live in base and don't need "improvements", they can opt for the in-base rates. i can see the steam coming from the heads of the commuters looking for a better deal for themselves already let it fly, boys |
I liked the old short call or long call way.
73 hours guarantee if on short call line, 70 if long call. Rolling days off is not good, nor is having HDOs in a block. Wish we can split them. |
Originally Posted by Short Bus Drive
(Post 2338901)
I liked the old short call or long call way.
73 hours guarantee if on short call line, 70 if long call. Rolling days off is not good, nor is having HDOs in a block. Wish we can split them. i can tell you the intl trips are diff than domestic. they're longer and can't really be split for coverage. but if pilots want to elect the option, with the adjusted rates, go for it the commuter option could have: pos space commutes in aisle seat hotel night before or after trip full crew desk transparency no harassing "short" calls long calls (15 hrs ?) laundry drop-off uber ride to commuter airport (no need for airport car) fixed days off. they can just up the num on wb reserve to cover those six day trips whatever. put it all in the option. and adjust the pay rates to balance whatever the costs are and let pilots elect one option or the other 98% will vote for this system so the commuters to reserve will have what they want a very modest proposal |
Conversely, how about we just work on getting back some of the better aspects that we used to have, which we gave away for nothing?
|
Originally Posted by oldmako
(Post 2338918)
Conversely, how about we just work on getting back some of the better aspects that we used to have, which we gave away for nothing?
if not, then you don't know what trades or exchanges were made this assumption that the company and the group can improve one area of the contract without costing somewhere else is just - not even sophomorish. even college sophomores understand this do we still have pilots on property without college degrees ? this is really basic stuff Mako |
so no "conversely"
how about the union just follow my proposal why are you afraid of that? maybe the rates will be the same - if there's really no "cost" |
| All times are GMT -8. The time now is 10:01 PM. |
Website Copyright © 2026 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands