United pax forcibly removed from flight
04-10-2017, 10:52 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 182
Originally Posted by TonyC
The Contract of Carriage Document is available on-line, no media interpretation required. There is no list for removing passengers who have boarded.
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04-10-2017, 10:54 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: Taco Rocket Operator
Posts: 2,485
Originally Posted by TonyC
Nice ad hominem attack. That bolsters your position significantly. 
So, you're going to try to redefine "board", too?
Good luck with that.
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So, you're going to try to redefine "board", too?
Good luck with that.
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04-10-2017, 10:54 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 280
Originally Posted by thevagabond
You are tool of the week for writing this. The guy paid for a ticket. He should get to ride. I hope he sues the airline. If I were on the jury I would vote to award a generous settlement. I'm sure if you had to be someplace and paid for a ticket that you would be the most gracious passenger ever as evidenced by your mature and adult like posts on this forum.
04-10-2017, 10:56 AM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Originally Posted by TonyC
The Contract of Carriage Document is available on-line, no media interpretation required. There is no list for removing passengers who have boarded.
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Furthermore, the passengers were told the individuals to be removed were selected by the computer, not from a boarding priority list.
Because the news always reports aviation stories accurately, right?
04-10-2017, 11:09 AM
#87
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by 2StgTurbine
Whenever I had to DH on an oversold United flight, I was always told by the gate agent that they would get to me AFTER they were done boarding.
04-10-2017, 11:10 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2016
Posts: 846
So UAL only goes up to $800 for denied boarding compensation? I've always wondered what the amount was. I wonder if this will cause UAL to change their overbooking formula and or their maximum denied boarding compensation?
04-10-2017, 11:11 AM
#89
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by Falcondrivr
Originally Posted by RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT
RULE 21 REFUSAL OF TRANSPORT
UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:
- Breach of Contract of Carriage – Failure by Passenger to comply with the Rules of the Contract of Carriage.
- Government Request, Regulations or Security Directives – Whenever such action is necessary to comply with any government regulation, Customs and Border Protection, government or airport security directive of any sort, or any governmental request for emergency transportation in connection with the national defense.
- Force Majeure and Other Unforeseeable Conditions – Whenever such action is necessary or advisable by reason of weather or other conditions beyond UA’s control including, but not limited to, acts of God, force majeure, strikes, civil commotions, embargoes, wars, hostilities, terrorist activities, or disturbances, whether actual, threatened, or reported.
- Search of Passenger or Property – Whenever a Passenger refuses to submit to electronic surveillance or to permit search of his/her person or property.
- Proof of Identity – Whenever a Passenger refuses on request to produce identification satisfactory to UA or who presents a Ticket to board and whose identification does not match the name on the Ticket. UA shall have the right, but shall not be obligated, to require identification of persons purchasing tickets and/or presenting a ticket(s) for the purpose of boarding the aircraft.
- Failure to Pay – Whenever a Passenger has not paid the appropriate fare for a Ticket, Baggage, or applicable service charges for services required for travel, has not paid an outstanding debt or Court judgment, or has not produced satisfactory proof to UA that the Passenger is an authorized non-revenue Passenger or has engaged in a prohibited practice as specified in Rule 6.
- Across International Boundaries – Whenever a Passenger is traveling across any international boundary if:
- The government required travel documents of such Passenger appear not to be in order according to UA's reasonable belief; or
- Such Passenger’s embarkation from, transit through, or entry into any country from, through, or to which such Passenger desires transportation would be unlawful or denied for any reason.
- Safety – Whenever refusal or removal of a Passenger may be necessary for the safety of such Passenger or other Passengers or members of the crew including, but not limited to:
- Any Passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, consents and acknowledges that he or she shall reimburse UA for any such loss, damage or expense. UA has the right to refuse transport, on a permanent basis, to any passenger who, by reason of engaging in the above activities in this Rule 21, causes UA any loss, damage or expense of any kind, or who has been disorderly, offensive, abusive, or violent. In addition, the activities enumerated in H) 1) through 8) shall constitute a material breach of contract, for which UA shall be excused from performing its obligations under this contract.
- UA is not liable for its refusal to transport any passenger or for its removal of any passenger in accordance with this Rule. A Passenger who is removed or refused transportation in accordance with this Rule may be eligible for a refund upon request. See Rule 27 A). As an express precondition to issuance of any refund, UA shall not be responsible for damages of any kind whatsoever. The passenger’s sole and exclusive remedy shall be Rule 27 A).
I'd think there's probably a good case for 25:H,2 ...
Passengers who fail to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew, federal regulations, or security directives;
Notice the first sentence of the Rule:UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point, any Passenger for the following reasons:
Rule 25 says the airline can remove a passenger for any of those reasons, but prior to the passenger being selected to be removed, he had boarded, taken his seat, and declined offers to give up his seat voluntarily. How is that "failure to comply with or interfere with the duties of the members of the flight crew"?Sure, he resisted leaving the airplane after he was selected to be removed, but that act of resistance cannot be claimed to be the reason for removal when the selection for removal occurred before that behavior occurred.
Originally Posted by Falcondrivr
... and 25:H,4.
Passengers who, through and as a result of their conduct, cause a disturbance such that the captain or member of the cockpit crew must leave the cockpit in order to attend to the disturbance;
Again, you cannot claim the behavior which occurred as the passenger was removed is the justification for his selection for removal. That's like punishing you for an infraction you will commit in the future.(It's also unlikely a member of the cockpit crew had to leave the cockpit to attend to the disturbance.)
Originally Posted by Falcondrivr
However, the smart thing to do will be delay, file motions, and then settle. But I'm no lawyer.
That's why people are so disgusted with lawyers and the legal system.
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04-10-2017, 11:15 AM
#90
Organizational Learning
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Directly behind the combiner
Posts: 4,948
Originally Posted by Falcondrivr
Tony, read the first sentence of your post I quoted above. "UA shall have the right to refuse to transport or shall have the right to remove from the aircraft at any point,"
The gentleman presented his boarding pass, boarded the aircraft, occupied his assigned, reserved, paid seat, and declined offers to voluntarily surrender his seat. At that point, which behavior or condition described in Rule 25 applied?
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