Hiring to resume in earnest
10-06-2017, 10:46 AM
#42
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by Sunfish FAIP
A previous post mentioned it's a great time to be at United and a great time to get hired/class date. What about the other legacies? Is it a good time to also be hired at AA or DL?
What all this means is, if you know where you want to live and get hired by the airline with a domicile there, the seniority impact is irrelevant because commuting sucks.
To pinpoint your question further though, the best time to get hired is right before organic growth happens. That gives you the best odds of furlough protection, off reserve, upgrade to higher paying aircraft, etc.
10-06-2017, 11:17 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by webecheck
Delta has undergone a significant seniority list expansion already. This doesn't really matter if you're younger than average or have only NB career aspirations. AA is comparatively the largest and while it may be the airline constrained the most with organic growth potential, it also has the highest average age. Thus, a 40yr old hired today at AA will retire with significantly more seniority than at delta, and UA would be somewhere in the middle.
What all this means is, if you know where you want to live and get hired by the airline with a domicile there, the seniority impact is irrelevant because commuting sucks.
To pinpoint your question further though, the best time to get hired is right before organic growth happens. That gives you the best odds of furlough protection, off reserve, upgrade to higher paying aircraft, etc.
What all this means is, if you know where you want to live and get hired by the airline with a domicile there, the seniority impact is irrelevant because commuting sucks.
To pinpoint your question further though, the best time to get hired is right before organic growth happens. That gives you the best odds of furlough protection, off reserve, upgrade to higher paying aircraft, etc.
So in your opinion AA doesn't have much internal growth potential? I'm aware that they pretty much double the amount of mandatory retirements/year as compared to UA. In a couple years they will be kicking almost 1,000 out the door/year.
Btw Im 37 and have a CJO for AA and UA. In 3 years we will be moving to domice and then try to get into a WB
10-06-2017, 11:59 AM
#46
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Joined APC: Jun 2014
Posts: 303
Originally Posted by webecheck
Delta has undergone a significant seniority list expansion already. This doesn't really matter if you're younger than average or have only NB career aspirations. AA is comparatively the largest and while it may be the airline constrained the most with organic growth potential, it also has the highest average age. Thus, a 40yr old hired today at AA will retire with significantly more seniority than at delta, and UA would be somewhere in the middle.
What all this means is, if you know where you want to live and get hired by the airline with a domicile there, the seniority impact is irrelevant because commuting sucks.
To pinpoint your question further though, the best time to get hired is right before organic growth happens. That gives you the best odds of furlough protection, off reserve, upgrade to higher paying aircraft, etc.
What all this means is, if you know where you want to live and get hired by the airline with a domicile there, the seniority impact is irrelevant because commuting sucks.
To pinpoint your question further though, the best time to get hired is right before organic growth happens. That gives you the best odds of furlough protection, off reserve, upgrade to higher paying aircraft, etc.
10-06-2017, 01:22 PM
#47
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Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 662
Originally Posted by Sunfish FAIP
So in your opinion AA doesn't have much internal growth potential? I'm aware that they pretty much double the amount of mandatory retirements/year as compared to UA. In a couple years they will be kicking almost 1,000 out the door/year.
Btw Im 37 and have a CJO for AA and UA. In 3 years we will be moving to domice and then try to get into a WB
Btw Im 37 and have a CJO for AA and UA. In 3 years we will be moving to domice and then try to get into a WB
Movement will be feverish at AA soon, but will be at Dal/UA too. The ultimate decision factor based on my experience, and like many have alluded to before, is where are you going to live. If you want to be a WB capt, and your choices are AA or Dal, and perhaps your wife says we can live in DFW or MSP, it's a no brainer. I don't think there will be much difference between UA/AA, but at your age going to Dal will...and again, that's if your ultimate desire is to be a 777ca. Keep in mind, DAL has more WB Capts as a % of fleet makeup (not total numbers) as it's in their contract that anything over 12 hours is 2ca/2fo. If that ever changed to be inline with UA/AA, and the Delta WB fleet stays the same, I doubt a 37/38 yr old hire would ever see the top pay rate at Dal. This will not be the case for a 37/38 yr old at UA/AA.
Hiring for retirements and organic growth are two different things. The same % of the seniority lists will be retired 20 yrs from now, just different curves between the majors. If UA becomes 15k pilots, equal to AA, that's 2.5k of organic growth. I could dive into it further, but imo it's more significant in the beginning of your career (furlough, off reserve, quicker to big jets) but much less significant at the end because that same % ahead of you has retired. If you're moving to base, who cares, bid reserve purposefully.
Commuting, commuting, commuting. That's what matters. If you wish to live in Texas, go to AA. Dfw is a fortress base and about as sure a bet as you can make for a company keeping large bases there. IAH is more of gamble. If you want to live in Cali, go to UA. Sure AA has more in Lax at present, but we are going to grow lax while also having Sfo as a fortress with tons of WB flying.
If you're looking for advice on it, just tell us where it is you intend to live. Commuting is doable in the short term, a career of it will make you rethink things you once thought important. IMO of course.
10-06-2017, 02:41 PM
#48
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Joined APC: Dec 2009
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Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by webecheck
United is the place to go for WB flying, but it's not like it's going to be some drastic difference at AA. I would not factor that difference in your equation.
Movement will be feverish at AA soon, but will be at Dal/UA too. The ultimate decision factor based on my experience, and like many have alluded to before, is where are you going to live. If you want to be a WB capt, and your choices are AA or Dal, and perhaps your wife says we can live in DFW or MSP, it's a no brainer. I don't think there will be much difference between UA/AA, but at your age going to Dal will...and again, that's if your ultimate desire is to be a 777ca. Keep in mind, DAL has more WB Capts as a % of fleet makeup (not total numbers) as it's in their contract that anything over 12 hours is 2ca/2fo. If that ever changed to be inline with UA/AA, and the Delta WB fleet stays the same, I doubt a 37/38 yr old hire would ever see the top pay rate at Dal. This will not be the case for a 37/38 yr old at UA/AA.
Hiring for retirements and organic growth are two different things. The same % of the seniority lists will be retired 20 yrs from now, just different curves between the majors. If UA becomes 15k pilots, equal to AA, that's 2.5k of organic growth. I could dive into it further, but imo it's more significant in the beginning of your career (furlough, off reserve, quicker to big jets) but much less significant at the end because that same % ahead of you has retired. If you're moving to base, who cares, bid reserve purposefully.
Commuting, commuting, commuting. That's what matters. If you wish to live in Texas, go to AA. Dfw is a fortress base and about as sure a bet as you can make for a company keeping large bases there. IAH is more of gamble. If you want to live in Cali, go to UA. Sure AA has more in Lax at present, but we are going to grow lax while also having Sfo as a fortress with tons of WB flying.
If you're looking for advice on it, just tell us where it is you intend to live. Commuting is doable in the short term, a career of it will make you rethink things you once thought important. IMO of course.
Movement will be feverish at AA soon, but will be at Dal/UA too. The ultimate decision factor based on my experience, and like many have alluded to before, is where are you going to live. If you want to be a WB capt, and your choices are AA or Dal, and perhaps your wife says we can live in DFW or MSP, it's a no brainer. I don't think there will be much difference between UA/AA, but at your age going to Dal will...and again, that's if your ultimate desire is to be a 777ca. Keep in mind, DAL has more WB Capts as a % of fleet makeup (not total numbers) as it's in their contract that anything over 12 hours is 2ca/2fo. If that ever changed to be inline with UA/AA, and the Delta WB fleet stays the same, I doubt a 37/38 yr old hire would ever see the top pay rate at Dal. This will not be the case for a 37/38 yr old at UA/AA.
Hiring for retirements and organic growth are two different things. The same % of the seniority lists will be retired 20 yrs from now, just different curves between the majors. If UA becomes 15k pilots, equal to AA, that's 2.5k of organic growth. I could dive into it further, but imo it's more significant in the beginning of your career (furlough, off reserve, quicker to big jets) but much less significant at the end because that same % ahead of you has retired. If you're moving to base, who cares, bid reserve purposefully.
Commuting, commuting, commuting. That's what matters. If you wish to live in Texas, go to AA. Dfw is a fortress base and about as sure a bet as you can make for a company keeping large bases there. IAH is more of gamble. If you want to live in Cali, go to UA. Sure AA has more in Lax at present, but we are going to grow lax while also having Sfo as a fortress with tons of WB flying.
If you're looking for advice on it, just tell us where it is you intend to live. Commuting is doable in the short term, a career of it will make you rethink things you once thought important. IMO of course.
AA CEO has stated that they "will NEVER lose money again".
So those are things to consider......
10-06-2017, 03:58 PM
#49
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Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by webecheck
United is the place to go for WB flying, but it's not like it's going to be some drastic difference at AA. I would not factor that difference in your equation.
Movement will be feverish at AA soon, but will be at Dal/UA too. The ultimate decision factor based on my experience, and like many have alluded to before, is where are you going to live. If you want to be a WB capt, and your choices are AA or Dal, and perhaps your wife says we can live in DFW or MSP, it's a no brainer. I don't think there will be much difference between UA/AA, but at your age going to Dal will...and again, that's if your ultimate desire is to be a 777ca. Keep in mind, DAL has more WB Capts as a % of fleet makeup (not total numbers) as it's in their contract that anything over 12 hours is 2ca/2fo. If that ever changed to be inline with UA/AA, and the Delta WB fleet stays the same, I doubt a 37/38 yr old hire would ever see the top pay rate at Dal. This will not be the case for a 37/38 yr old at UA/AA.
Hiring for retirements and organic growth are two different things. The same % of the seniority lists will be retired 20 yrs from now, just different curves between the majors. If UA becomes 15k pilots, equal to AA, that's 2.5k of organic growth. I could dive into it further, but imo it's more significant in the beginning of your career (furlough, off reserve, quicker to big jets) but much less significant at the end because that same % ahead of you has retired. If you're moving to base, who cares, bid reserve purposefully.
Commuting, commuting, commuting. That's what matters. If you wish to live in Texas, go to AA. Dfw is a fortress base and about as sure a bet as you can make for a company keeping large bases there. IAH is more of gamble. If you want to live in Cali, go to UA. Sure AA has more in Lax at present, but we are going to grow lax while also having Sfo as a fortress with tons of WB flying.
If you're looking for advice on it, just tell us where it is you intend to live. Commuting is doable in the short term, a career of it will make you rethink things you once thought important. IMO of course.
Movement will be feverish at AA soon, but will be at Dal/UA too. The ultimate decision factor based on my experience, and like many have alluded to before, is where are you going to live. If you want to be a WB capt, and your choices are AA or Dal, and perhaps your wife says we can live in DFW or MSP, it's a no brainer. I don't think there will be much difference between UA/AA, but at your age going to Dal will...and again, that's if your ultimate desire is to be a 777ca. Keep in mind, DAL has more WB Capts as a % of fleet makeup (not total numbers) as it's in their contract that anything over 12 hours is 2ca/2fo. If that ever changed to be inline with UA/AA, and the Delta WB fleet stays the same, I doubt a 37/38 yr old hire would ever see the top pay rate at Dal. This will not be the case for a 37/38 yr old at UA/AA.
Hiring for retirements and organic growth are two different things. The same % of the seniority lists will be retired 20 yrs from now, just different curves between the majors. If UA becomes 15k pilots, equal to AA, that's 2.5k of organic growth. I could dive into it further, but imo it's more significant in the beginning of your career (furlough, off reserve, quicker to big jets) but much less significant at the end because that same % ahead of you has retired. If you're moving to base, who cares, bid reserve purposefully.
Commuting, commuting, commuting. That's what matters. If you wish to live in Texas, go to AA. Dfw is a fortress base and about as sure a bet as you can make for a company keeping large bases there. IAH is more of gamble. If you want to live in Cali, go to UA. Sure AA has more in Lax at present, but we are going to grow lax while also having Sfo as a fortress with tons of WB flying.
If you're looking for advice on it, just tell us where it is you intend to live. Commuting is doable in the short term, a career of it will make you rethink things you once thought important. IMO of course.
I have absolutely no desire to go wear a double breasted coat plus I feel like the DL ship has set sail with almost 4,000 new hires over the last 4+ years. I think my end goal is the same as most guys WB Capt and live in domice. The next couple years we have to live in JAN but we will get paroled in 3 years and then the options she likes is D.C. (WB at IAD), CLT, MIA or DFW. I've had the UA CJO for 9 months so I'm almost to the point of having to redo the interview which is a bummer
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