Dont land like its the sim
07-10-2018 | 09:09 PM
#51
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Joined: Mar 2008
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I’d heard someone reference the stab, but thought it was the same size, which didn’t really seem like it would make a difference for a plane that’s only incrementally larger. I didn’t know they were actually smaller. Why’d they do that? Cruise efficiency?
07-10-2018 | 09:34 PM
#52
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Joined: May 2013
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30% smaller. Did it for a reduction in drag. Also the elevator was slotted. After slats retract it pumps gas to the tail tank to reduce trim drag. As you climbed up you could feel the cg shifting and the stability dropping off.
Weight, LSAS, tail, sleep lift curve, sight picture, (miss)trimming for you were weird quirks.
What really messed with you was the inconsistency of the airplane in ground effect combined with the x factor of LSAS.
All the 10/11 pilots I flew with loved the 10, hated the 11.
Weight, LSAS, tail, sleep lift curve, sight picture, (miss)trimming for you were weird quirks.
What really messed with you was the inconsistency of the airplane in ground effect combined with the x factor of LSAS.
All the 10/11 pilots I flew with loved the 10, hated the 11.
07-11-2018 | 05:51 AM
#53
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 91
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From: 777 Cap
The IAS targets have 2 limits:
— VAPP as the minimum value
— VFE - 5 kts in CONF FULL, or VFE of the next configuration in CONF 1, 2 or 3 as the maximum value.
Ground Speed Mini (GS Mini) Computation
Ground speed mini concept has been defined to prevent the aircraft energy from dropping below a minimum level during final approach. The GS mini value is not displayed to the Crew.
— VAPP as the minimum value
— VFE - 5 kts in CONF FULL, or VFE of the next configuration in CONF 1, 2 or 3 as the maximum value.
Ground Speed Mini (GS Mini) Computation
Ground speed mini concept has been defined to prevent the aircraft energy from dropping below a minimum level during final approach. The GS mini value is not displayed to the Crew.
What the FM doesn’t tell you is that VLS is calculated by load planning’s best guess of your actual weight. VAPP takes the VLS guess for wind adds and Mini GS.
The Yellow dynamic VLS scale is calculated by the FACs. This difference of source is why Managed Magenta VAPP sometimes sits right on the Yellow VLS scale( the logic won’t allow it to be lower). This happens when load planning sends weights that are lower that what you really weigh.
While at cruise select AIDS-Param-Reports @2L. Then look for FAC-1 and FAC-2 weights. (If not displaying type GWFL into the boxes). Compare FAC weight to FMGC weight. Add about 1kt for every 1000lb to VAPP that FAC weight is higher than FMGC weight. Then you will have a 5 knot spread of yellow line and Magenta bug and the stick won’t get soft in the flare.
07-11-2018 | 06:53 AM
#54
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,457
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From: Airbus 320 Right Seat
We were always told to pretty much disregard the GWFL weights in the FMgC. Cause I have seen them Pretty far off from what we actually weighed.
I forget the number but they said over 5000 pounds is reason to look in a weight error.
Could be wrong on the 5000 , I just recal being told an amount at some point in time.
I forget the number but they said over 5000 pounds is reason to look in a weight error.
Could be wrong on the 5000 , I just recal being told an amount at some point in time.
07-11-2018 | 08:23 AM
#56
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From: 777 Cap
07-11-2018 | 07:33 PM
#57
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 353
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Climb
This how ground speed mini works. If you put a Value in Vapp you still get ground speed mini.
Sunvox hope this helps some as far as what the bus is thinking.
Approach autothrust:
Below 3200 ft. radio altitude, with at least CONF 1, the A/THR logic is modified to be more responsive to speed variation. This is referred to as approach autothrust.
Speed Mode In Approach Phase
When the aircraft flies an approach in managed speed, the speed target displayed on the PFD in magenta, is variable during the approach. This managed speed target is computed in the FMGS, using the “ground speed mini function”.
Ground Speed Mini Function Principle
The purpose of the ground speed mini function is to take advantage of the aircraft inertia, when the wind conditions vary during the approach. It does so by providing the Crew with an adequate indicated speed target. When the aircraft flies this indicated speed target, the energy of the aircraft is maintained above a minimum level ensuring standard aerodynamic margins versus stall.
If the A/THR is active in SPEED mode, it will automatically follow the IAS target, ensuring an efficient thrust management during the approach.
The minimum energy level is the energy level the aircraft will have at touchdown, if it lands at VAPP speed with the tower reported wind as inserted in the PERF APPR page.
The minimum energy level is represented by the Ground Speed the aircraft will have at touchdown. This Ground Speed is called “GROUND SPD MINI”.
During the approach, the FMGS continuously computes the speed target, using the wind experienced by the aircraft, in order to keep the ground speed at or above the “Ground Speed Mini”.
The lowest speed target is limited to VAPP and its upper limit is VFE of next configuration in CONF 1, 2, 3 and VFE - 5 in CONF FULL.
The speed target is displayed on the PFD speed scale in magenta, when approach phase and managed speed are active. It is independent of the AP/FD and/or ATHR engagements.
Wind is a key factor in the ground speed mini function.
TWR Wind
It is the MAG WIND entered in the PERF approach page. It is the average wind, as provided by the ATIS or the tower. Gusts must not be inserted, they are included in the ground speed mini computation.
TWR Headwind Component
The TWR HEADWIND COMPONENT is the component of the MAG WIND projected on the runway axis (landing runway entered in the flight plan). It is used to compute VAPP and GS mini.
Current Headwind Component
The actual wind measured by ADIRS is projected on the aircraft axis to define the CURRENT HEADWIND COMPONENT (instantaneous headwind). The CURRENT HEADWIND COMPONENT is used to compute the variable speed target during final (IAS target).
VAPP Computation
VAPP, automatically displayed on the MCDU PERF APPR page, is computed as follows: VAPP: VLS + 1/3 of the TWR HEADWIND COMPONENT or
VAPP = VLS + 5 knots, which ever is highest. “1/3 of the TWR HEADWIND COMPONENT” has 2 limits:
— 0 knots as the minimum value (no wind, or tailwind)
— + 15 knots as the maximum value.
The Crew can manually modify the VAPP and TWR wind values on the PERF APPR page.
Speed Target Computation
The FMGS continuously computes a speed target (IAS target), that is the MCDU VAPP value plus an additional variable gust.
The gust is the instantaneous difference between the CURRENT HEADWIND COMPONENT and the TWR HEADWIND COMPONENT. It is always positive (or equal to zero for no wind or tailwind). The IAS target is displayed on the PFD as a magenta triangle moving with the gust variation. The IAS targets have 2 limits:
— VAPP as the minimum value
— VFE - 5 kts in CONF FULL, or VFE of the next configuration in CONF 1, 2 or 3 as the maximum value.
Ground Speed Mini (GS Mini) Computation
Ground speed mini concept has been defined to prevent the aircraft energy from dropping below a minimum level during final approach. The GS mini value is not displayed to the Crew.
This how ground speed mini works. If you put a Value in Vapp you still get ground speed mini.
Sunvox hope this helps some as far as what the bus is thinking.
Approach autothrust:
Below 3200 ft. radio altitude, with at least CONF 1, the A/THR logic is modified to be more responsive to speed variation. This is referred to as approach autothrust.
Speed Mode In Approach Phase
When the aircraft flies an approach in managed speed, the speed target displayed on the PFD in magenta, is variable during the approach. This managed speed target is computed in the FMGS, using the “ground speed mini function”.
Ground Speed Mini Function Principle
The purpose of the ground speed mini function is to take advantage of the aircraft inertia, when the wind conditions vary during the approach. It does so by providing the Crew with an adequate indicated speed target. When the aircraft flies this indicated speed target, the energy of the aircraft is maintained above a minimum level ensuring standard aerodynamic margins versus stall.
If the A/THR is active in SPEED mode, it will automatically follow the IAS target, ensuring an efficient thrust management during the approach.
The minimum energy level is the energy level the aircraft will have at touchdown, if it lands at VAPP speed with the tower reported wind as inserted in the PERF APPR page.
The minimum energy level is represented by the Ground Speed the aircraft will have at touchdown. This Ground Speed is called “GROUND SPD MINI”.
During the approach, the FMGS continuously computes the speed target, using the wind experienced by the aircraft, in order to keep the ground speed at or above the “Ground Speed Mini”.
The lowest speed target is limited to VAPP and its upper limit is VFE of next configuration in CONF 1, 2, 3 and VFE - 5 in CONF FULL.
The speed target is displayed on the PFD speed scale in magenta, when approach phase and managed speed are active. It is independent of the AP/FD and/or ATHR engagements.
Wind is a key factor in the ground speed mini function.
TWR Wind
It is the MAG WIND entered in the PERF approach page. It is the average wind, as provided by the ATIS or the tower. Gusts must not be inserted, they are included in the ground speed mini computation.
TWR Headwind Component
The TWR HEADWIND COMPONENT is the component of the MAG WIND projected on the runway axis (landing runway entered in the flight plan). It is used to compute VAPP and GS mini.
Current Headwind Component
The actual wind measured by ADIRS is projected on the aircraft axis to define the CURRENT HEADWIND COMPONENT (instantaneous headwind). The CURRENT HEADWIND COMPONENT is used to compute the variable speed target during final (IAS target).
VAPP Computation
VAPP, automatically displayed on the MCDU PERF APPR page, is computed as follows: VAPP: VLS + 1/3 of the TWR HEADWIND COMPONENT or
VAPP = VLS + 5 knots, which ever is highest. “1/3 of the TWR HEADWIND COMPONENT” has 2 limits:
— 0 knots as the minimum value (no wind, or tailwind)
— + 15 knots as the maximum value.
The Crew can manually modify the VAPP and TWR wind values on the PERF APPR page.
Speed Target Computation
The FMGS continuously computes a speed target (IAS target), that is the MCDU VAPP value plus an additional variable gust.
The gust is the instantaneous difference between the CURRENT HEADWIND COMPONENT and the TWR HEADWIND COMPONENT. It is always positive (or equal to zero for no wind or tailwind). The IAS target is displayed on the PFD as a magenta triangle moving with the gust variation. The IAS targets have 2 limits:
— VAPP as the minimum value
— VFE - 5 kts in CONF FULL, or VFE of the next configuration in CONF 1, 2 or 3 as the maximum value.
Ground Speed Mini (GS Mini) Computation
Ground speed mini concept has been defined to prevent the aircraft energy from dropping below a minimum level during final approach. The GS mini value is not displayed to the Crew.
It will go to APP IDLE when you select CONFIG 1 regardless of RA... try it and watch the N1s bump up after selection. Are you guys getting NEO’s? No idea why but the software changed and it won’t go to APP IDLE until CONFIG 3 or gear extension... that said it idles lower than the IAE
07-11-2018 | 10:34 PM
#58
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,508
Likes: 109
It will go to APP IDLE when you select CONFIG 1 regardless of RA... try it and watch the N1s bump up after selection. Are you guys getting NEO’s? No idea why but the software changed and it won’t go to APP IDLE until CONFIG 3 or gear extension... that said it idles lower than the IAE
07-12-2018 | 06:09 AM
#60
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,091
Likes: 1
Approach and landing with autothrust off is a violation of your SOP? Really? Ridiculous.
As for Sunvox it sounds like he was in a 319 which often puts Vapp right above Vls particularly in light wind conditions. None of the 320s squeeze that margin as tightly, especially the older ones.. Pull the power at what you think should work in that condition and the rug comes out from under. The Bus I thought took longer to get a good consistent feel for landing than other airplanes. Normal stuff there Sunvox.
As for Sunvox it sounds like he was in a 319 which often puts Vapp right above Vls particularly in light wind conditions. None of the 320s squeeze that margin as tightly, especially the older ones.. Pull the power at what you think should work in that condition and the rug comes out from under. The Bus I thought took longer to get a good consistent feel for landing than other airplanes. Normal stuff there Sunvox.
Last edited by CousinEddie; 07-12-2018 at 06:25 AM.
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