Sure but they don’t exist in EWR or IAH.

Why? Specifics, please.

I've flown both Atlantic and Pacific. I see no reason why crossing the Atlantic is harder than crossing the Pacific.

Especially when the sun comes up and then things start getting busy. Vectors, holding...ugh.

And it leaves later. Don’t understand that. I’m sure some of the EWR 756 pilots will be happy to see LHR go to 787. A buddy of mine’s line for Aug has 5 LHRs! Of course he was chasing the -400. But not every trip on -400.

After years of going up and down multiple times a day on either a 737 or 320, I can see where the 756 looks attractive. Commutable trips and 8 legs a month rather than 8 legs per trip. Not much financial incentive, but a lot less work.

But have you flown LHR un-augmented? I have.

1) Math. Hawaii is barely 5 hours. EWR-LHR is 2.5 to 3 hours LONGER.

2) LAX-HNL is all daylight. EWR-LHR isn't. The HNL-LAX red eye is all dark but often go's under 5 hours.

3) You don't spend and hour and a half to get to the hotel in HNL like you do in LHR.

4) Getting in and out of LAX and HNL is much free flowing and getting out of EWR and LHR.

5) On EWR-LHR you're crossing twice as many time zones as you do LAX-HNL.

6) There's many more reasons why but I have to go commute soon.

All this talk of LAX-HNL... Least we forget HNL-DEN unagumented. There's hell for you.

The only place they fly out of is EWR, that’s why all the senior guys flooded in there- chasing widebody pay.

My last three Hawaii trips were 6 to 6.5 with all night back right at 6. That's flight time. Add another hour from push sitting in that 737 7.5 hours.



DEN to LIH is 7:45

From where? LAX HNL and HNL LAX are both blocked at less than 6 hours from what I’m looking at in the bid packages. SFO is even shorter. And at 5 hours in a 756 or 777.

Anyway, the reason I brought up the point of the 787 being able to do more Europe un-augmented wasn’t to start a conversation about which trips are tougher in each airplane from other domiciles. The point was that some routes that now require three pilots may only require two when EWR 787 opens which can be more tiring and require less pilots.

Forgive me....I'm a bit of a lurker here because my son is one of you.

None of you really know what hell is. Nine years ago I was pushing metal for Air India flying the 777 and one of my frequent routes was FRA to ORD. My copilot (if you can call him/her that) was typically 21 or 22 years old and had no more than 500 hours total time and Air India did not authorize/allow copilots to land the jet. Air India didn't augment until scheduled time went over 9:59 which it never did, so in the winter actual flight times were often well over 10 hours. BTW when you hear Air India check in with ORD approach I would give them a little extra room.

When you fly a 777 from FRA to ORD essentially by yourself in the middle of winter....only then....will you understand what real hell is.