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sailingfun 03-23-2019 03:57 PM


Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 2788318)
People state information on the web all the time. Links with proof please, if you want intelligent people to believe you.

Also, from a pilot perspective it is not as important as pay and QOL. United pilots look to Delta and perceive a "greener grass", but the truth is UAL has WAY better work rules and FAR more pilots paid at the top rate as a percentage of the total pool of pilots.

A couple simple examples:
1) Delta pilots show up for their trip and the company reschedules the entire trip with no cost. NOT true at United.
2) Delta pilots are expected to extend when FAA 117 limits are hit. United pilots can and DO refuse and/or get paid.

Both of the above are incorrect. A Delta pilot can’t be rerouted prior to the first leg of a trip. In addition a Delta pilot can’t be rerouted into any uncovered leg known more than 14 hours in advance. Doing either if accepted by the pilot triggers double pay.
Delta Pilots can refuse an extension and in fact its being changed as we speak to opt in rather than opt out system.
Each airline has some better and some worse work rules. To state Uniteds are way better is quite a stretch. Delta for example uses two CA’s on flights over 12 hours and augments any flight over 8 hours.
Delta requires turns on narrow bodies exceeding the FAR’s to also be double crewed rather than a relief pilot. Dinner and a show to the Caribbean.

757Driver 03-23-2019 04:29 PM


Originally Posted by Sunvox (Post 2788318)
People state information on the web all the time. Links with proof please, if you want intelligent people to believe you.

Also, from a pilot perspective it is not as important as pay and QOL. United pilots look to Delta and perceive a "greener grass", but the truth is UAL has WAY better work rules and FAR more pilots paid at the top rate as a percentage of the total pool of pilots.

A couple simple examples:
1) Delta pilots show up for their trip and the company reschedules the entire trip with no cost. NOT true at United.
2) Delta pilots are expected to extend when FAA 117 limits are hit. United pilots can and DO refuse and/or get paid.

You forgot to mention our incredibly lame PTC protection that dumps every single minute of overs when there is a cancellation or reschedule. Or the even better day off restoration that isn’t as long as you are deadheading home the day after your trip supposedly ends.

2 gems leftover from previous L-UAL contracts that never should have seen the light of day.

As a PS, yes I know CAL’s previous contracts sucked but we were light years ahead of you on these two items.

Best practices my ***.

C11DCA 03-23-2019 05:33 PM


Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2788376)
Delta requires turns on narrow bodies exceeding the FAR’s to also be double crewed rather than a relief pilot. Dinner and a show to the Caribbean.

How many Delta narrowbodies have an FAR compliant rest seat that would allow a relief pilot to be used on those turns?

No rest seat, no relief pilot.

ReadyRsv 03-23-2019 05:57 PM


Originally Posted by C11DCA (Post 2788413)
How many Delta narrowbodies have an FAR compliant rest seat that would allow a relief pilot to be used on those turns?

No rest seat, no relief pilot.

UAL contract allows a pilot in coach middle seat to operate the turn.

C11DCA 03-23-2019 06:38 PM


Originally Posted by ReadyRsv (Post 2788424)
UAL contract allows a pilot in coach middle seat to operate the turn.

No it doesn’t. Not for augmentation.

5-J-4

You might be thinking of the double crew concept where one crew flies down, the other deadheads. They swap. In that case yes a middle seat Econ+ is possible.

But not for an augmented flight.

RJDio 03-23-2019 07:00 PM


Originally Posted by N6279P (Post 2788325)
This is a ridiculous argument on many levels.

Please elaborate.

sailingfun 03-24-2019 06:13 AM


Originally Posted by C11DCA (Post 2788413)
How many Delta narrowbodies have an FAR compliant rest seat that would allow a relief pilot to be used on those turns?

No rest seat, no relief pilot.

Exactly my point. Most other airlines on those routes waive the rest seat requirement and allow a standard first class seat so a relief pilot can be used. Delta requires it be dual crewed.

Photoflier 03-24-2019 06:36 AM


Originally Posted by 757Driver (Post 2788388)
You forgot to mention our incredibly lame PTC protection that dumps every single minute of overs when there is a cancellation or reschedule. Or the even better day off restoration that isn’t as long as you are deadheading home the day after your trip supposedly ends.

2 gems leftover from previous L-UAL contracts that never should have seen the light of day.

As a PS, yes I know CAL’s previous contracts sucked but we were light years ahead of you on these two items.

Best practices my ***.

I’ve called out my LUAL brethren for this same thing: STOP with the “WE and YOU” crap. It’s only US now.

C11DCA 03-24-2019 07:05 AM

1 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 2788652)
Exactly my point. Most other airlines on those routes waive the rest seat requirement and allow a standard first class seat so a relief pilot can be used. Delta requires it be dual crewed.

And that’s what UAL does too. Two crews for same duty period Caribbean turns.

For example:

757Driver 03-24-2019 07:22 AM


Originally Posted by Photoflier (Post 2788664)
I’ve called out my LUAL brethren for this same thing: STOP with the “WE and YOU” crap. It’s only US now.

Agree but I'm not sure how to describe it as these were L-UAL holdovers from the past that should have been thrown in the trash. Supposedly we were to take the best policies from either carrier and these two weren't even up for debate. Can't tell you how many thousands of dollars I've seen thrown away over the years and I'll bet they won't even be discussed on our future CBA.


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