I got hired in 1990. I was a 727 S/O in ORD as a new hire. I had a base trade while still in training to get DEN. It was not approved. As soon as my IOE was finished the bid awards came out and for the first time I am aware of they junior manned the bottom 40 pilots in ORD to upgrade to the 737 f/o seat involuntarily. I was at the bottom of that list since I finished my IOE a few days prior. It delayed me getting based in a DEN for 2 and a half years and I was the bottom 737-300 FO for almost 2 years. Was in inconvenient? Yes. Does commuting to reserve suck compared to being based at home? Yes. I didn’t **** and moan about it because I wanted the job and was thrilled to death to be here. If you can’t endure a few years sucking hind tit when there is massive movement going on while we speak, then maybe this isn’t the career for you.

Let it go.......

We are talking about relative seniority in a class of XX size. Get over it.

You are still senior to everyone in the next new class......forever.

From a guy back in the SSN days.....oldest guy in the class and the Ball. GOD SAVE THE BALL!

My assignment......DC-10 SO in ANC.

Commuted from SAT.

Lee

What does a 20 year MIL guy have to do with the price of tea in China. Are you implying that all MIL go to the front of the list for that class? What about someone who has been flying for 3 different airlines during that same 20 year period? What about someone who started taking flying lessons when they were 10 years old and went the civilian route and is now 30 years old? Perhaps we should put all females at the front, maybe trans or LGBT should go first. Why not just find a random way to do it like the SSN number method. Just because you think you are special doesn’t mean you are. You are not special if you fall into any of these groups.

HAY!
Bid 20-04V is out!!

Motch

Fake news.

There was suppose to be a link to "Rick Roll".. alas, I failed~

April Fools!
Figured I'd take some heat off the newbies~
LOL

HappY Halloween Everyone~
Boo

Motch

Too quality trolling there brother. I must have refreshed my page 4x before I decided I had been had

I was expecting the Rick roll. There really is a 20-04V on the way. Just not sure when it will show up.

Well then throw down with some rumor mill details broseph. 300 capt seats? 500 WB fo? This is APC, which means speculate and/or hate. Nothing else allowed. Lol

What a strange direction the thread took. I can't believe how forgetful people are of the bad times, lack of stability, lack of job openings, etc. If someone is separating and taking a chance outside of active duty, that's a big leap. Units close, positions get defunded, the economy can a downturn, hiring projections can change. On the other side, we could get involved with a conflict, and as others have shown, you could end up living in a tent away from your family for a long time. Strange how anyone, especially those with a military background would look at that from the outside and think someone is making those choices with a "rolling in dough" mindset. I'd guess that most people making these choices are doing it with a family in mind, not a Ferrari. If someone can get a class date with a major, they'd be crazy not to take it, even if someone thinks the good times are permanent. They're not.

Getting a guard spot can be tricky, and timing a class date for training for certain guard jobs isn't just a matter of letting the unit know when you're going, just like you don't just let United know when you're going to Indoc.

Nobody should turn down a class date that doesn't potentially want to regret that decision for a decade stuck in a regional or findiong other work. Especially those who are serving the country (at a much lower payrate than those *****ing about their PS impact).

Guys in this position have likely been serving for 10-12 years, and have spent a lot of time in some crummy places.

If you don't take it, they're just going to fill that slot with some 20-something that isn't grateful for the job that mom and dad most likely helped get them, and starts thinking on day 1 about suing the company because he didn't get the seniority number that he was entitled to. If they're thinking about suing for that, can you imaging flying with them and trying to debrief a crappy approach or bad decision or having to stand on a carpet with them in front of a CP or jury?

For anyone thinking about the Guard or Reserves out of the gate, go for it. The only people that would negatively judge you are people you wouldn't respect anyway.

My understanding of human emotions has proven flawed so this is worth the entertainment of a forum post and no more, but my observation would be that one is allowed to comment on the "relative" suckiness of their position.

Yes, there are times when it was bad for pilots, but being stuck commuting for 2 years to a 756 reserve post because you were young is sucky no matter how you slice it. My guess is the dude has perspective, but just wanted to vent. I get it. It's ok to vent.

We wouldn't be pilots if we didn't have something to complain about.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=rNxz2hhSXuY

ORD 787 will be closed, 777 will grow by a commensurate number of seats.

Only to reopen a few months later with one destination.

If you're an airline pilot with a guard or reserve gig and 17+ tafms then you're crazy not to try to get an active retirement. The only guys I've seen salty about long term mil leave were the ones unable to pull it off themselves.

It's just business. If the airline had to furlough we'd be the first ones to get the boot and the company wouldn't lose a second of sleep. If a real war started we'd be sent to fight and the military wouldn't skip a beat if you died fighting it. So if you can take care of yourself and your family by finishing 20 years of service then you should try to make it happen.

And as to the anectdote of guys with 17-20 years of service having a hard time getting hired...I haven't seen anyone who's really trying be unable to get hired at a major unless they have some serious skeletons or something. But even then I know people hired this year with lost IP quals, multiple Q-3s, even Article 15s.

FINALLY! I'm not alone~

:cool:
Motch

Vacancy 20-03V
 

You mean like this guy from the December bid period last year? I’d have to look again but I believe his BES didn’t have anything less than 2 day trips. His commander must be one ball buster to have that poor pilot work one day of mil on Xmas eve and another day of mil on the 26th.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...98e25f1806.jpg

That certainly looks like someone gaming the system. But you never know. I have a buddy at another major airline where a guy just like you took a screen shot of a schedule and emailed it to the chief pilot. (He had July 4 blocked out for mil leave and only that day) He brought a copy of the flight plan for the pow/mia flyover he did that day.

Maybe he’s really Santa Clause... ever thought about that?

Why didn’t he just bid the 4th off? That’s what the rest of us do when we have something important to attend. He’s clearly part of the greatest generation & doing the things no one else can. :)

You would have to ask him that question. I am not well versed in how airlines I don’t fly for work their schedules.

Do you really save screen shots of some other dude's bid from 11 months ago?

That right there.

Would be interesting if the company made us submit proof of service for mil leave days such as LES showing that the days were actually worked.

Anyone who thinks people don’t abuse mil leave around the holidays are either completely naive or just delusional.

First of all, no one is forced to take an AGR tour, it’s strictly voluntary. Second, if it sucked that bad, people wouldn’t volunteer for it. There is usually a reason and for most it’s because it usually pays way better than first year FO pay just about every where when you figure all of the tax free allowances.

Anybody get lateraled for Dec yet?
 

Anybody get lateraled for Dec from this bid award?

Vacancy 20-03V
 

Yeah sure why not? I don’t know the dude or even who it was. I thought it was pretty funny. One Mil day - Xmas off - one Mil day on a plane that has no one or two day trips. But he could have been part of a Santa Claus strike package with a Boxing Day BDA sortie I guess.

Like someone else said, it’s comical to think mil leave isn’t abused by some. At my old joint I flat out heard guys say “oh if I can’t hold it off I’ll get my CO to write me up some orders”.

Here I’ve seen guys below the g line put a couple mil days on the transition when it’s known they need as many reserves as possible. Since PBS can’t give them a reserve line working the transition they’ll get a hard line and someone above will sit reserve because of it.

FWIW this is a total hate the game not the players.

Players are pretty weak sauce to screw their fellow players like that.

We don't "put a couple of mil days down," we have military duty that we have to accomplish. Some currencies expire monthly... So you'll see things at the end of the month. "When the company needs reserves" should be the last thing on a military pilot's mind when trying to get his dirty taken care of. Now anyone who is putting mil leave on their schedule and not performing duty, will eventually be caught.

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Not yet, I'm still waiting to hear also. Hopefully its before March.

Now that this is turning into a hate on Military Reservist thread, I have a question for the haters.

If the benefits of the Military Reserve are so great, why didn’t you join? Seriously, if the ability of position yourself to Mil Drop a Christmas trip is so great, why didn’t you join?

Yes, I’ve met some people who tried to join, but had a medical issue that is within standards for a 1st Class, but not a military flight physical... Generally, those are the people that understand what it is about, and not the keyboard commandos saving screenshots of other peoples schedules.

For everyday of Mil Leave I’ve dropped, I have a corresponding LES to match it. The company does do random audits, and some not so random audits...and I have been audited...and I turned in the paperwork to pass the audit. Dropping Mil Leave & not performing Mil Leave sounds like a great way to get fired from both jobs.

In a couple years, once I retire, someone junior to me might have 1 month where he has what appears to be a better schedule than me because of MLLV. I won’t waste one brain cell on whether or not it is fair, because:
1. I’m no longer on the hook for a year long Mobilization to Djibuti for a deployed staff tour
2. I’m no longer Mil Dropping 60 days/year at a 50% paycut
3. I show up to an Air Conditioned jetway, in an an Air Conditioned plane, and have a contract that requires them to feed me a desert with the crew meal.

They company actually does make “us” submit proof during random audits that just about every one of us actual service members has had to comply with.

You continue to speak on a topic you literally know nothing about. Time to worry about yourself and not so much about what others are doing.



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How does that work with USERRA? You still have to account for every period under 31 days? Or are they looking to only audit longer orders 31 days and over?

To your questions above... I have and I continue Serve and I while I have had the opportunity to “take advantage” of mil leave, I refuse to do for anything other than legitimate purposes (and yes it almost cost me a job once because I refused to show up to indoc and immediately drop mil leave KNOWING I had a 6 month deployment starting the Second week of indoc). You are certainly entitled to your opinions as I am entitled to my opinions (based on both conversations with and direct observations of other mil folks) and I have spent a **** ton of time In ****ty places to ensure that I am allowed to have those opinions.

Most reservists do the right thing but the simple fact remains that there are military reservists who abuse mil leave (Especially during first couple of years with an airline) and unfortunately it’s those individuals who make a bad name for all of US. So when you say “ worry about yourself and not so much about what others are doing,” when someone else’s actions reflect poorly on a group I am associated with, it is my business.

The Mil shield that protects one from scrutiny. Like the racist card. Not allowed to question anyone anymore. Unless your storming the beach of Normandy. You all have a pretty good deal. It's a all volunteer force. No lectures from your crowd please. We all know the deal. Wink wink.
Before you throw down the , you could have joined card. The military is not for everyone.
Please stop with that BS line.

You could have joined — you chose not to, or tried and failed. And now you’re whining like a little girl. You were deemed unqualified, or you’re a chicken. Which one?

Question = Yes

Slinging insults & calling Military Reservists weak sauce and accusing them of screwing their fellow crew members?

How would you suggest an appropriate response?

Not agreeing or disagreeing with what you wrote, but dude you write (ironically) like a Colonel at war against commas. You needed so many and yet the only one you used was so tragically misplaced.

So who’s worse LCAL Mil guys or LUAL mil guys? As long as we are doing them and us...

Yawn.... move along.... it’s a ****ing contest you won’t win.


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