Word at TK is guppy instructors having fly days moved from DEC to NOV in preparation for the start of major new hire training come DEC.
And more big bids to come

I heard the same thing from a LHR van driver so it’s a lock.

You know what being "...forced into a 756 which will keep you on the coasts for 2yrs" beats?

Changing the @#!itter on a King Air after it was dominated by some rich p×!ck whose kids destroyed the cabin and made it look like a Cheerio factory exploded.

Or getting rained on torrentially while it's 38 degrees outside and you're securing a load on a 48' flatbed. Don't forget the two 100 lb.. tarps you had to manhandle up on top of the load because the forklift driver didn't want to be in the rain and wind any longer than absolutely necessary to load your trailer.

PERSPECTIVE. Get some.

If you're so unhappy the world needs ditch diggers too.

Class starting BI today has 40 people in it.

Heard potentially a class a week in the New Year for quite a few weeks.

Good time to be at United.

I completely agree. Seniority at the indoc should not be age based but random. Its age discrimination. Just because you are younger you are now forced into a seat that you might not want, making less money because it's going to take longer to be a line holder, worse schedules and most likely committing. United I'm sure at some point will have a law suit.

If you dont like what was dealt just keep your apps updated. A 757 type rating might look good on a resume.

A lawsuit in which they will win. Seniority has to start somewhere and as the youngest in my class over a decade ago, I get it. Short term pain. My class already has its oldest retiring within 2 years while I and others have over 20 years to go, the last decade of which (if we stay healthy) will have us under 10% seniority systemwide and retiring sub 100. Why is it not fair to give those who made the move later in life a temporary leg up?

Suing your employer while on probation sounds like a winning strategy.

Because quite frankly I don't give a **** they got hired the same time as me but older.. pull seniority out of a hat, use social security numbers, but it is age discrimination the way it's done now. And no I don't think they would win because I think there have been similar law suits in the past where they have lost. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that's why old united did it according to social security numbers.

That's why you do it after. Not rocket science.

Good luck with that too, there’s only sixty or so years of precedence.

More good news for Denver (from the Denver Business Journal):

United Airlines (Nasdaq: UAL) is aiming to add 50 more daily flights out of Denver International Airport by 2020. That will bring DIA’s top airline passenger carrier’s total daily flights to 550.

“Denver is United’s fastest growing hub,” Jonathan Guerin, a United spokesman, said in an email. “This summer we surpassed more than 500 daily departures, a record for United in Denver and in 2020 we expect to bring Denver up to 550 peak day departures — that’s almost 150 flights per day added over four years.”


He added that the flights will be a mix of domestic and international destinations. Guerin declined to reveal the locations of the new flights, though a United official announced at an event last week that it is adding a nonstop flight from Denver International Airport to Lynden Pindling International Airport in Nassau, Bahamas, next year.

While the overall passenger traffic at DIA increased by 5.1% in 2018, international traffic grew by 14%, DIA spokeswoman Mindy Crane previously told DBJ. Additionally, Kim Day, the CEO of DIA, previously told DBJ this spring that the airport is working on securing nonstop flights to Asia and Australia.

Also, expect a huge bid in December.

Good times indeed.

And this mindset boys and girls is an example of why socialism is gaining ground with the younger generation. I guess we should adopt a cosmic justice policy and give out 8th place trophies so that everyone is a winner. Using age is fair. The 30 year old new hire has 35 years to advance, the 45 year old pilot only 20.

But it's all about *ME*!!!!!

You’re deluded by your self importance, maybe you’re being facetious? Any pilot who’s not on the line producing revenue is a drag on the network. A cost without return.

Stay away from been a union volunteer
The me me me attitude is dangerous for the 13150 minus 1 pilot seniority at UAL

FYI I am 46 years old and in the 60 percent of the seniority as of today

I don’t see how a military pilot on leave is a drag. They aren’t paid reserve guarantee or anything while they’re gone. From a business standpoint I think that United would be thrilled to lock in a solid pilot and not have them go to a competitor. There’s also the PR aspect about supporting our military. There’s also the issue that those in the military past and present have made huge sacrifices to serve our country and it’s not out of line to show a little gratitude and respect to those who voluntarily serve. I wasn’t in the service, but that’s how I view those who are/were.

You’re joking right? Some 28yo wonder kid should be the senior pilot in the class just because they scored in some rando system? Hey kid, those older pilots will be long retired while you’re flying the newest wide body in the system. Make less money, phaleez.:rolleyes: Its 1 year (after first year pay)!
Ugh, wait until age 67 hits, then it will be “whaa, get out of my seat.”
:cool:

401k is not a small chunk of change, assuming a year 3 737 FO is out on leave thats probably 25K/year, a year 6 777FO is probably close to 40k/year. then you can factor in all the retaining costs to bring them back up once they return from leave, assuming they left after IOE now they have wasted at about 50K in training costs as well. now if they are not on long term leave but are regularly having to place mil leave on awarded trips due to conflicts with the military that can increase the cost significantly, now the company has to burn a reserve or potentially pay 200% to cover their trip. this can be particularly problematic with last minute stuff, im not in the military but ive talked to people who claim to have put mil leave on trips inside of 24hrs to report. not bashing mil pilots but to say there is no drag associated with mil leave is not true.

Lots of things are a cost....vacation, sick leave, furlough recall rights, etc. They are all justified and worth it. I don’t have a problem with people going on leave, even right out of training. They are more of an asset to this company and society as a whole than people whining about “getting stuck on the 756” or being victims of age discrimination because of how we determine seniority within a class.

im pretty sure age descrimination laws only protect people over 40. anyway why shouldn't age be used. a 25 year old has 39 years to get close to #1, a 45 year old does not. the only way i might see to be better would be everyone take a systems or indoc test and highest score is first but that would only work if they were hiring into 1 fleet type ( this might work at SWA)

You say you're not bashing military pilots, but then...you seem to do it.

Not only do we have pilots on MLLV, but we have dispatchers, mechanics, flight attendants, agents, you name it. The entire corporation has to deal with it in all departments. Also, all of corporate America has to deal with it from Jiffylube to Walmart to Delta to American to JetBlue to Southwest. it is what it is.

There was a determination by the National Command Authority back in the 1980's to shift the burden of national defense to citizen soldiers and to have the states as well as corporate America shoulder more of the burden.

I guess you could dig up Reagan's corpse and both chambers of congress and moan and groan to them about it, but it's the cost of doing business today and it's how we will fight wars in the today and in the future.

The same rules apply to all players, to include state and local governments and police forces and fire, EMS, etc. I think I have made my point fairly clear.

We have a former MEC Chair at Continental who went on a 21 year MLLV. So what. A 3 year MLLV is not big deal. And yes, putting in MLLV inside of 24 hours may be an inconvenience. if it was, the company would staff more reserves. Pop up taskings happen. The guard/reserve continues to do more with less. It's called "military necessity." if a dude or dudet took a 3 year MLLV so what. Nothing you say, or purport to say, or insinuate, or hint at is going to change any of that.

The more the company does to pee off the pilots the more mllv gets dropped. PBS is what it is. Pilots will drop MLLV after they see their PBS award and decide what they can and can't do.

All of America's civilian employers have the same "drag". I guess they should just re-write the USSERA laws and fire everyone who is the guard/reserve....there.....no more drag.

Now, back on topic.

Anything concrete on remaining bids for this year?

I’m glad the men and women serving in the military protecting your freedom of speech are “a drag” and “a cost without return”. Without that freedom of speech, We wouldn’t be able to hear your pompous a**, congratulations!

Crawl back in your hole, troll!

Bronco

It must of been shocking to hear that seniority in indoc was age based. Nobody ever explained that to you? Like when they offered the CJO? In 2013 that was made very clear.....enjoy the lawsuit. BTW I was the 8 ball of my class....that means I will make more money, more contributions to the 401k, and longer timeframe in the highest paying seats then any other classmates and I get to retire in the top 100 which is something none of my other classmates can say. So yeah for 20 months I had to commute....I don’t know how I survived this injustice.

It's threads (and some comments) like these that make me wish people would actually put their real names on their comments'

Ya want to change how seniority is assigned in your newhire class.. ok.
But man up (or woman up!) and put your name on your post.

Ya think 2 yr seat lock sucks on a 756 out of newhire training.. ok.
But man up (or woman up!) and put your name on your post.

Ya think that Military guy/gals work the system by using mil leave.. ok.
But man up (or woman up!) and put your name on your post.
* For the record, some (probably) do.. but not the majority!

End of the day, some of these comments just make a lot of us shake our heads.. it's all bull****.

Now.. back to the MOAB coming in 2 weeks!

FS, FP and FtC!
Always
Motch
(Peter "Motch" Matschulat.. 756 FO EWR)

Federal age discrimination laws ONLY protect people over 40 from being fired strictly based on their age. There is no such thing as “age discrimination” per se. Using age to determine seniority is completely within the law. Anyone can sue, but there’s no legal standing for it.

“Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?”

Cost of our freedom *********.

I can see why you are thinking I am being anti MIL as it is harder to convey tones on an internet page but i can promise that is not my intent. if we were having this conversation F2F it would be easier. my comment was more aimed at the fact that USERRA allows people who want to abuse the system the chance to do so without any way for the company to identify abuse. it also was in response to someone saying that mil leave creates 0 drag for the company, which was why i gave those examples

while every company in the US has to deal with USERRA i would think airlines see it more than most. simple reasoning; about 35-50% of new hire pilots at most airlines are military trained pilots. i have 0 knowledge of what % of those are guard/ reserve but i would guess half of those are either guard from the start or finishing out their 20 in the guard/reserves. so 18-25 %, give or take, of your newhire workforce is in this catagory. i doubt many other companys can say the same.

if you see no issues with a person taking a job when the have no plans to actually do the civilian job they are applying for all while forcing that company to put 10s of thousands of dollars into an account for that individual then i am not going to change your mind.

i understand that the government is shifting towards guard/reserve to save money and honestly this makes alot of sense financially. I also understand that most guard/reserve folks are caught between 2 very demanding jobs and often times the only real loser is their families. but at the end of the day the way it is used by some for things like
-getting specific days off their senority could not hold.
- getting out of undesirable trips.
- getting a sen# while still planning to spend years on AGR status to get a 20 year retirement.
you can see why people whom it is not directly benefiting would call it into question.

we all know USERRA wont change because ,like you said, it places alot of the financial burden on companies and not the government.

People's personal opinions, both within the guard/reserve, and OUTSIDE the guard/reserve are just that. Their personal views. How you FEEL about someone's decison-making process is up to you. How you feel is a personal thing.

I recall the IAH Ast CP saying...."you need to choose between Continental and your Navy unit." That ACP was relieved the day after the suit hit. He had his opinion and it cost him for running his mouth and being recorded doing it.

The three important things are: YES, the gaurd/reserve provides a viatal national defense function, and YES it costs money. and YES it's a drain on personal life and professional life. It's a compromise. UAL, like everyone else has to deal with that compromise.

I will always take extremely strong exception to anyone speaking negatively about someone taking mil leave for what they perceive as an injustice to others, regardless of what day they were hired.

The company, just as the training department staff knows better than to mention something so reckless. You may have your personal opinions about someone taking short notice MLLV, or even MLLV while a new hire. I would encourage you to keep those views to yourself. You can't know, nor pretend to know all of the factors involved. That new hire may or may not be looking forward to all of the aspects of that activation, but regardless, it's none of your business.

Amen...this nails it

Im not in congress so i have no power to change anything...but this is a public forum and again I was just responding to someone who said MIL leave has 0 adverse affect on their civilian employer. regardless of your beliefs i would hope you recognize that a civilian employer is affected, although is is a cost of doing business

I agree that should cost him his job as a CP. that is not what I was saying and I would not support that stance for a second.

no argument,

fair enough. while I will agree with you 95% of the time, I will always take exception to people who try to game the system for their personal advantage. i have known many people who are juggling their civ and mil job and it is a HUGE drain on their personal life. I also know a few that are taking advantage of their CIV employer (both in aviation and other fields). I guess we will disagree on that one

I spent my entire childhood, from the day I was born til i was out of the house, with a parent who was between these 2 jobs. so yeah i can imagine some of the factors. I am not saying people need to leave the reserve or anything of the sort. if you knew me personally you would know that I am extremely supportive of the military and that includes the guard and reserves. I was just pointing out the ways USERRA affects the employer that some may not realize. again the person I quoted said MIL leave has 0 adverse affect on their employer. while it is your right (and I fully support you for doing so, you are doing our country a great service) to take MIL leave, it does affect your employer.

if I have come a cross as anti MIL that was not my intent. please take that for what it is worth. my opinions on the matter are from personal experience not anecdotal evidence. I assume you are a active member of our military and I thank you for your service.

Someone let me know if I'm wrong here but doesn't it behoove the airlines to hire retired military and enable their Guard/Reserve pilots to get to their 20 years since they are likely to use Tricare and not the company healthcare plan in the long run.

This website shows that a family plan at most large firms costs the employer on average $15,000 a year for their share of the contribution. Do the math on that for 23-30 years for a mil hire and that's $300-450k (in today's money) that doesn't become a "drag" on the company.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/how-...insurance-cost

I'm civilian and completely agree. "Drag on our network"? Shameful.

LCAL paid $50/mo if someone used Tricare until "they" (VA? Congress? DoD?) prohibited monetarily incentivizing use of Tricare over other health insurance.

Healthcare may go the way of the do-it-yourself pension, available starting in January.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/your-em...-k-11561109401

"A landmark change will soon give more American workers control over their health-care coverage, but be warned: There are pitfalls. Beginning Jan. 1, 2020, companies can provide employees with tax-free dollars to purchase an individual policy rather than offer them a traditional group-health plan...the so-called Health Reimbursement Arrangements..."

Never heard of a civ background pilot complain about mil leave. Most of the people that really take issue with mil leave ABUSE are separated or retired military. The issue is with the intent of USERRA vs the letter of the law. It was intended for NON-CAREER military to have protection and it can be argued that it is unethical for career military to take an official/unofficial sabbatical from their military career to start a civ career willfully knowing that they will drop mil leave for up to 5 years to secure a govt pension. There aren't many that have chosen this particularly route but enough have done so that it has made it more difficult for veterans between 14-18 years of service to get interviews based on anecdotal evidence only. Those that have decided to use the law to return to a full time military career have secured a very good deal (have your cake and eat it too) when formerly most have had to make a choice to get a seniority number or get an active duty pension. I haven't personally seen the "mil leave to drop undesirable trips" but I know several that have dropped 3-5 years mil leave the moment they have consolidated.

US Code for background info only so y'all can decide for yourself:

§4301. Purposes; sense of Congress
(a) The purposes of this chapter are-
(1) to encourage noncareer service in the uniformed services by eliminating or minimizing the disadvantages to civilian careers and employment which can result from such service;
(2) to minimize the disruption to the lives of persons performing service in the uniformed services as well as to their employers, their fellow employees, and their communities, by providing for the prompt reemployment of such persons upon their completion of such service; and
(3) to prohibit discrimination against persons because of their service in the uniformed services.

Lets get back to talking about MOABs and new hires unhappy with the 756.

I can’t figure out why any pilot would have a problem. Every guy ahead of me on mil leave effectively moves me up a number when I bid every month.

That’s a good thing.