Does anyone know if this will be the last "mega" bid for the year? I haven't read anything on how many of these to expect before they shut off the faucet until next fall. I'm assuming they will do one or two smaller clean ups but wasn't sure if they would do another big one.

I would guess once the MAX gets cleared for T/O, we’ll see a good sized bid.

If trade war resolved, HKG protests end, and 737max gets certified, expect some nice bids every month.

If trade war intensifies, Boeing implodes, and ww3 breaks out, expect furlough.

Sorry, that wasn't helpful, but probably fairly accurate. I don't think the company has said this yet, but outside of retirement churn, my guess is capt seats won't grow until max is resolved, and WB growth has had its big expansion with anything beyond the current status quo being dependent on an improving foreign affairs environment. Conditions are primed to punish any big bites at further expansion imo.

Historically the bids slow down in the spring. They don’t want many line pilots going through transition training in the summer. But the next few bids also typically go more senior as training will be Jan/Feb/March when the senior folks aren’t likely to lose vacation for training.

Straight from Paul Carlson’s mouth is another “medium” bid in November followed by a “super” bid in December.

Awesome, thanks! That's exactly what I was looking for. Couldn't find it anywhere in print and was wondering if anyone had heard or read anything. Last year they tipped us off as to how many big ones they were gonna run during fall/winter. Not so much this year. Most likely based on lack of timeline for the MAX.

As others have said training tends to slow down over the summer, but also look at the aircraft delivery schedule. No sense training pilots for aircraft that haven't shown up yet.

For 2020 schedule new aircraft are:

2 777’s (coming early 2020)
15 787’s (spread throughout the year but mostly fall or earlier)

And 28 Max’s (in addition to the 16 that were supposed to be delivered by the end of this year). But who knows when those were actually be able to fly.

Those are only new aircraft. We also have 19 used 737NGs starting with 2 in Q4 and more used 319s trickling in.

How do the snapshots process seat locks?

I see quite a few instances of new (sub 2 year) 737 CA lateraling to the 320 or vice versa and new 777 FOs with 787 bids. Does that mean those names will disappear for the final, thus making things more junior or do they incur a cumulative freeze after the new training?

If they haven't been trained yet there is no seat lock. How long is the 737 upgrade short course? Pretty sure there is a section of the UPA that addresses short training courses and a 1 year freeze.

Edited - I just looked at the snapshot. The junior SFO 787 folks many were awarded the 777 last month and haven't even been scheduled for training yet therefore 8-D-1-c applies.

The short upgrade is 13 days

SYSTEMS Day 1: Systems 1 and 2 Day 2: Systems 3 and 4 Day 3: SV
PROCEDURES Day 4: FTDB 3 Day 5: FTDB 4 Day 6: FTDB 5 (PV)
MANEUVERS Day 7: FFS 1 Day 8: FFS 3 Day 9: FFS 5 (MV)
LOFT Day 10: FFS 6 Day 11: FFS 8 Day 12: FFS 9
LOE Day 13: FFS 10 (QLOE)

Question for the smart ones..
With an effective date of March 1, does that mean training completed by then? If so including IOE?

The reason I ask is I have a week vacation in each month Dec-Apr. Plus a cruise paid for in Dec for the whole family. Was thinking of upgrading to Capt but don't want to lose 5 weeks of vacation, or risk my cruise in Dec.

Last question, what happens to lost vacation? 401k?

Thoughts? And Thanks

March 1 is the effective date...basically the date you should be available to start flying in that seat. Sort of a moving target. I upgraded in 19-05, started TK 3/17, finished OE 4/30 and consolidation 5/28.

You will likely lose your vacation so you have to weigh the risk of trying to avoid training in December. Carlson is pretty good about answering questions like that. Any vacation you lose becomes available for monthly bidding. The catch is...you won’t have time to do monthly bidding before the vacation year ends. That lost vacation will be paid out into your PRAP without the 16% from company.

Thanks for the reply, I guess I'll wait for the Dec bid.

How about a lateral move? Is it effective in march or do they allow a faster transfer?

It can happen faster, just depends on staffing needs for losing and gaining category.

This is a great productive thread. Thank you all for the info. Much appreciated and cheers to continued vacancies!

The vacancies on the snapshot in unadvertised categories (i.e. LAX 320 CA) are projected backfills.....correct?

Yes.

If a category goes below the MIN #, then backfills occur including unadvertised categories.

FWIW I lost vacation last March for IOE and rebid it as monthly and got it back a week later than originally scheduled. Also, if you’re going to an airplane that you’ve already consolidated on, you don’t need to consolidate again. You’re only subject to high mins for first 100 hours.

results are out::

EWR 320 24 unfilled
EWR 737 31 unfilled
LAX 320 2 unfilled
LAX 737 25 unfilled
SFO 320 25 unfilled
SFO 737 96 unfilled


SFO 787 FO went down to 13,000 ish seniority. About 200 from the bottom

What’s life going to be like for that new hire? How many years of RSV would that be on the 787?

Well iv been here 7 years and am still on reserve......but might be a line holder next summer. I’d be a 777 line holder in SFO and EWR

Probably 2 years when his/her seat lock is up and they bid 737/320 :)

That depends.

If they live local in the SFO area it will be part excruciating pain smattered with some good times when they don't use you at all and you stay home getting paid.

If they are a commuter then it will just be the excruciating pain part!!

This bid went a lot more senior than I expected for its size.....a lot of senior WB FOs are finally taking the CA bid.

I’d like to see the training footprint of THAT guy when he finally goes to a narrowbody LoL.

Good point. It’s too bad the incentives aren’t in place system wide (reserve rules, pay bands for 756, etc) to naturally keep the vacancies left for INDOC to 737/320. Those are great airplanes for new hires learning the system and needing reps. IRO/WB not so much.

It’s odd that many new hires have been forced into 756 and are seat locked for 2 yrs. Meanwhile, a new hire in 737 training (hypothetically) can bid 777. Doesn’t seem like it’s best for the company (more training costs) and definitely not the pilots who put themselves in that position.

A new hire who gets the 756 can also bid the 777. 8D is very clear. You can bid up to a higher seat. The only thing that would prevent it would be a Bidding freeze from 8-D-2. That’s not applicable to a new hire.

Indeed. In fact the new hire who held 777 while still in training was a 756 new hire. I had the pleasure of meeting him earlier this month. Super nice guy. Knows what he is getting himself into for the most part although there were plenty of suggestions/opinions thrown his way. Young guy, married and just separated from the AF with no roots to pull up so renting an apartment in the city (SFO) is doable for he and his wife. We are living in good times when people in their first 2 months have options like this. 27 year old 777 FO. 38 years to current mandatory retirement. He, and many others like him being hired this year should have excellent careers.

I can see where I wasn’t clear. My point is, it sucks that the current seat lock system which is in use system wide applies to new hires. I don’t know the rules everywhere but I know AA seat lock is only 6 months.

It’s odd that the system prevents new hires forced into the 756 from flying more beneficial platforms like the 737/320 for such a long period despite rapid movement in the system.

If the company wants to prevent wasted money and training events from new hires being forced into (and immediately bidding off) the 756, the solution is simple: make the 756 more desirable.

Now if we could only find a way to make an airframe more desirable to a pilot...

I think if the pay was increased and it only flew on Tuesdays there would be lots of interest.

But not every Tuesday, let's not go nuts.

I'd bid it.

The ridiculous pay rates were a result of the merger contract, where the 757 was pay banded down to match the guppy. So now we are stuck with it. If it paid more as it did in the legacy United contract, we wouldn’t have this problem.

This. ^^^^^^^^

I personally think the company loves it. There’s not much incentive to change planes which cuts training costs.

But in the legacy United contract, the 767 was banded down and paid the same as the 757. The merger contract broke out the 767-300 from the 757-200 and put (I get it, politically) the 767-400 in with the 777/747/787. We now here about the 757-200 paying the same as the 737/800/900/Max, but we don’t here many complaints from the senior 756 pilots who are making what the 777/787 pilots are making and still able to pick up domestic trips more often as they can fly the 757/767-300 domestic. Regardless of why we are where we are, it needs to change. I completely agree.

In the legacy United contract the 757 was banded up to the 767 rate, between airbus and 747/777. The only difference is that the 757s had to be same as guppy because of the disparities in the two pre-merger fleets. There is no reason the 757 shouldn’t be pay banded up with the 767, but now its too late. At least the lame SLI argument failed.

The 757 pay is too low, as is the 767 300. Both of those need to come up.

In the next contract, all rates need to go up,but those two need a big improvement.

Where do we stand now...now that Delta plus is gone?

I don't get why the contract is taking so long. They were working on this well before the amendable date. Seems like we know where the deficiencies are. let's march forward and take back what was stolen from us under bankruptcy, the threat of bankruptcy, and liquidity shortfall.

Surely Kirby gets it right? We're done playing nice-nice. We've all been through the ringer and we're really tired of playing games.

The reason the contract is taking too long? Read many of the posts, many of these folks are happy with what they have now and the fact that bids are out and such.

Most are not willing to do anything at the moment to have the company take notice. JMO