Vacancy 20-03V
 

Happy Bidding

ORD gets 787!

It will be interesting to see how junior it goes.

70 new wide body Captains on a single monthly bid. 395 vacancies total.

Has anyone seen prospective pairings, or even the routes that the ORD 787 will operate? Is it expected to be the same as Newark - 5 trips to the airport for 75-ish hours credit?

FRA MUC BRU!~ That's it

FRA, MUC, and BRU, and less credit since it flies faster than the 767 and the 777.

If I were ORD 777 I'd wait for the bump, and the more junior it goes, the more people can bump in.

So 3-day, 15 hour pairings? Sounds just like EWR, but with less of a selection of layover airports. The aircraft seems like the logical choice for ORD-HND during the olympics, but other than that it's not going to be great flying.

It is not that fast!! It will be 3 day about 18ish to MUC. about 1730 for FRA, and 1630 for BRU

Sounds terrible. Ugh.

170 Captain bids.
225 First Officer bids.

DCA 777 CA 10
EWR 777 CA 10
IAH 777 CA 10
SFO 777 CA 5
ORD 787 CA 35
LAX 756 CA 10
SFO 756 CA 10
EWR 320 CA 15
DCA 737 CA 10
DEN 737 CA 20
IAH 737 CA 25
ORD 737 CA 10
ORD 787 FO 60
SFO 787 FO 15
LAX 756 FO 5
ORD 756 FO 5
EWR 320 FO 25
ORD 320 FO 10
SFO 320 FO 10
DCA 737 FO 10
DEN 737 FO 20
EWR 737 FO 20
IAH 737 FO 20
LAX 737 FO 15
ORD 737 FO 10

Those three are for starters. More route changes to come over the next year.

The company has already said why they prefer to break up the bids, so when you look at this one combined with last months in that context, pretty damn nice movement. Now that we have 2 month widebody FOs, guess all that’s left is 2 yr NB Capts. Probably won’t go that junior right now, but if not for the max debacle and all the capt seats those jets would generate, we’d be there imo.

Agree all the more reason we should sue Boeing for lost wages and opportunities related to the Max

LOL.

Totally agree :D

Really though, how stupid can a Union be.? I'll go on record here to say that SWAPA will not prevail in their lawsuit against Boeing. Sheeesh, what maroooooons.

Glad I'm not the only one who finds that lawsuit stupid. Why doesn't SWAPA just sue DALALPA instead? After all, it's the DAL pilots who made all the extra money and over time this summer off the woes of the other US airlines that had grounded MAX fleets. :rolleyes:

Better yet, I say UA 737 pilots sue our Bus and 756 brethren for all the extra money they made this summer covering for us! Yeah baby! :D

I was wondering how many vacancies are going to be in CLE.

That’s Joe Peck (he’s proudly outted himself on this forum many times) calling our union brothers and sisters at SWA morons.

FACTS: All pilots at SWA fly the B737 aircraft. Boeing delivered a product with undisclosed defects. SWA pilots suffered financial damage due to Boeing’s negligence. SWAPA is seeking $10K per pilot in restitution.

Weather or not they prevail is less important than recognizing a union that’s looking to make its members financially whole.

Nice unity Joe.

If SWAPA "wins" outright at $10k per pilot, I'm guessing after legal fees each WN pilot will get about $100 :eek:. The only real winners on these things are the law firms :mad:

Note: Since SW flies 737s exclusively their pilot group has a stronger case for damages than we do. But I'm not holding my breath in any case... Hopefully I can make any money back when 30+ Maxes come back on the line in very short order.

Thor

What company made it a requirement for no additional training to be required with the MaX order? Your lawsuit is a product of your own companies stupidity. Btw ual is just as just as guilty. Every US airline was giddy (Except DAL but I’m sure they were all too happy use the max for a better 320 price) at lower cost on a current type. Boeing caved.

Fun little side not SWA had an employees with in ranks that fully understood the short comings of the max.

Is it just me, or in the past 2-3 days have their been an exponential increase in posts where the grammar and spelling are worthy of a 2nd grader?
Are more people posting drunk?
Should I feel bad because I didn't come to the cockpit and say hi on my last deadhead?
Inquiring minds...

I HATE it when deadheaders come up to the cockpit to introduce themselves.

It should be "Hi"....:p;):)

Oh, dear. I've been outed again. :eek:

First, SWAPA is not ALPA. When I started my aviation career, there were several carriers for which I would never have considered working. SWA was one. From the beginning SWA pilots undercut ALPA by accepting work rules to which no legacy pilot would ever have agreed. They also giddily stole market share during the 2000s by working even harder at a time when the legacies were on their backs. SWAPA pilots have no loyalty to any union other than their own. Yes, SWA pilots are paid well, but they happily work like dogs to earn that pay.

To wit, my second point. Most of the employees at Boeing are union members. How about SWAPA shows them some unity in this difficult time as our MEC Chair has done from the beginning?


Third, in the history of commercial airline manufacturing there are numerous examples of planes that had initial problems. Right off the bat, I remember the story of the de Havilland Comet. The first ever commercial jetliner, and tragically it had a flaw that caused it to break up in flight. If the customers of airplane manufacturers sued every time a plane was delivered with a flaw there would be no commercial airplane manufacturers left.

Lastly, it's whether not weather.

Joe Peck
EWRFO

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming . . .

With our Dear Leader having made nice with the Chinese this weekend, I wonder if that will keep the economic juggernaut rolling right along for another couple years. I am truly and happily amazed out how quickly WB seniority in both seats is dropping. Only a few months back I was thinking it would be 5 or 6 years before I could hold 777 cap in EWR and now it looks like it could happen in 2021. Holy rapid movement Batman!!

Apparently you didn’t watch Bugs Bunny as a kid. :D

Boeing MGT. is no friend to labor. They have been some of the most vocal about allowing outfits like Norwegian, moving work to SC to undercut union contracts, and having a hostile work relationship with their union employees...especially their engineers. The engineers who should have been doing work on the max were replaced with lower cost $15/hr ones because Boeing felt that the work on these planes were mature, and did not require the best engineers. Boeing is more concerned with profit then safety. This lawsuit and the others that will follow are just. The only thing these guys understand is the bottom line, and this is where it will hit them. Screw Boeing MGT. maybe the next group to lead the organization will understand the value of something other than $$.

This 100x over. F Boeing (mgmt).

Sleeves,

Two thumbs up!

https://media3.giphy.com/media/9BI5jV7lgiMBW/source.gif


I've got an acquaintance who has worked - on and off - for Boeing for decades. He's an engineer and they treat him like a migrant worker. He was a non-union type as a young man and a staunch union man now. 30 years of getting whipsawed changed his tune.

The first 777 rolled off the line ready to fly. All the components and assemblies bolted right up with minimal modification. Compare that with the 787, and now the MAX fiasco. Unions didn't screw that company up and make those $hort $ighted decisions, management did.

The previous vacancy bid had snapshots everyday. Don’t see any for this vacancy yet. When will the snapshots post?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s only published on work days. Depending on UAL’s definition of a holiday. It’ll be tomorrow or Tuesday.

Only on business days. First Snap Shot on Monday.

Couldn't agree more, but a company is more than it's management or do y'all think we are worthy of being equated with Tilton? Don't half comment.

First Snap is out

I am actually very surprised how senior almost everything went. I guess the outline of when to expect training caused a lot to jump.

It will be interesting to see the final because of what is possible with secondary awards. Language from the Vacancy announcement below:
Right now a bunch of the 777 CA awards are laterals, so they could create a good number more 777 CA slots to fill training.

• 4 DCA 777 CAP
• 1 EWR 777 CAP
• 3 IAH 777 CAP
• 3 SFO 777 CAP

So, as it stands right now there could be 11 more 777 CAP bids given out in the final award than are shown today. That, of course, would have a huge ripple effect down the seniority list.

Also, most of the DEN 737 CAP awards and almost all of the DEN 737 FO awards are laterals, so if they take advantage of the secondary award language for those locations, you could see a bunch more movement in Denver, potentially even "unfilled" 737 FO slots.

All of this depends on how much Manpower Planning uses that availability. Figure since they actually have gone out of their way to include the info in the Vacancy Announcement, we should see at least some secondary awards.

Don’t forget the backfills for all the ORD777CA that are bidding the new ORD787 base.

There will not be any backfills to the 777 in ORD for either seat. This category is being reduced and looking at the HUGE spread between Max and Mins in the bulletin, you can see there won't be backfills.

No way there will be unfilled Denver positions. This is the first vacancy bid my new hire class is competitive for and over 400 folks have been hired since then.

while you are probably correct, I am reminded of Dumb and Dumber - "So you are telling me there's a chance."

Right now on the snapshot, there are 27 awards to DEN 737 FO and the juniormost award is about 225 seniority numbers from the bottom of the seniority list. So, by just that info it doesn't look too promising. However, when you consider that 26 of those 27 awards are laterals you realize that there is a chance. Right now if the company so desired, they could continue awarding DEN 737 FO positions until they got to 26 more pilots that needed 737 training. Since there are not 26 pilots at that seniority level that are legal to be awarded a 737 assignment (new hires on the 320 or 756 are not eligible) that would require training, that means they can award as many 737 FO positions in Den as they want. Now I don't know how many they will elect to award, but they will need to decide between DEN, IAH, and EWR on where they want to keep awarding. If they are satisfied with the numbers in IAH and DEN, then they will stick with the unfilled spots they have in LAX, SFO, and EWR or just keep awarding unfilled spots in EWR until they get to enough unfilled spots to fill their training needs. Then new hires going to the 737 will all be going to traditional spots of SFO, LAX or EWR.

That coupled with the fact that they can also award 7 more DEN 737 CAP slots than are currently being shown, means you could have extra movement from that as well.

So, I am back to Dumb and Dumber:

Interesting points! Thanks for the write up. The snapshots are fun to look at!

I see that now, thanks. I just read the SSC report which provides good insight.