It's the first six months. Not first bid.

Bid QOL(spend time with your kids), live below your means, and save save save.

For real? No more whining in ORD

Vacancy 20-03V
 

Not correct. For those that are gone on long term military leave, they take a look back at your last 12 months of work, and whatever your monthly average is for those months, you’ll get 16% of that put into your B-fund.

However, you do not receive profit sharing for the years your are out on ML.

WTF you talking bout Willis? Buy that Porsche and a house on the beach, you done made it!

No seriously, I’ve met some new hires with millions dollar houses in the Bay Area driving $100k cars because their future upgrades will pay it off. Living pay check to paycheck is only temporary.

If you were a 756 pilot, you’d be able to bid 787 or 777 immediately anyway, since it’s a step up. No freeze if moving up.

Talk about good problems to have. Our class was hired with $29/hr and no insurance for 6 months. No 8-ball, no half-winger pin, and I can count on one hand the number of times anyone bought a beer or covered the tab the first year.

Glad things have changed.

No housing covered during training either.

Yeah, that one had me scratching my head. Funny how the Cherry Creek/TK bus conveniently made a stop by our accommodations. It was a sellers market.

Funny I was thinking the same thing.

Great points all around! The carry forward seat lock would be a win win and help a lot of people.

What's a seat lock?

I can’t find where that’s contractual, so I guess it’s just United’s policy?

Kind of a nice incentive. Unfortunately, I can also see how this could (and probably has been ) be a abused And also how someone who doesn’t have that option could get a little torqued.

If memory serves, it's federal law.

Vacancy 20-03V
 

I think it’s more the law, though the monthly average is not exactly what I would call “industry standard”. Those that “don’t have that option” could go sign on the dotted line, take a paycut, spend time in less that ideal locations away from your family and then maybe you’d become “un-torqued”.

No, it’s definitely not federal law. USERRA does not in any way require an employer to make contributions to your retirement account while on mil leave. It does have a provision to allow the service member to do make up contributions to their account.

Vacancy 20-03V
 

Wrong again....


USERRA requires that an employee's period of military duty be counted as service with the employer for purposes of eligibility, vesting, and the allocation of employer contributions under a 401(k) plan. ... An employee cannot be treated as having incurred a break in service because of a period of military service.

What other questions can we answer for you?

First off, I signed on the dotted line 19 years ago, and continue to serve my country in the reserve component. I have spent many many months in those such locations.

Second, It absolutely ****es me off when I hear about people who get hired and the immediately drop mil leave. Not the ones who are being deployed (that happens) but rather the ones serving in home station positions doing exactly what they were doing 3 months ago. For these guys, it’s usually NOT a pay cut as not only are they making more than first year airline pay (at just about all airlines) but they are usually also trying to finish out their 20 to get that check of the month.

That’s not what USERRA was intended for and it gets abused way too often.

Go preach else where!

Sounds like a good bit of jealousy. Someone got a better deal than you and you don’t like it. If people didn’t have the option to have their civilian employment rights protected while still performing their military duty (short term or long term) we wouldn’t have much of a volunteer military would we?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No jealousy, had the opportunity to do it, just don’t think it’s right. There’s protecting reemployment rights (good) and there is abusing those rights (bad). The law was not intended to allow someone to go hold an AGR position and you know it.

Gollum is preaching the truth and you’re butt hurt.

It is disingenuous and abusive of USSERA to get hired knowing that you already have a 3yr AGR secured with a bonus of 100K at 115k/yr. Then new hires drop long term mil leave as soon as consolidation is complete. MIL guys, we are just screwing our bros behind us if we do that. Look at Delta and some of the others who are not nearly as cooperative with the part time military.

Um, yeah it does.

They’re perpetually losing USERRA lawsuits for violating it.

How about everyone mind their own business? I know plenty of mil dudes on long term orders, at home station because the squadron genuinely needs them to function. The ones that abuse it will get what’s coming to them... like coming back from 4-5 years leave and still being on probation.....

And maybe as a new guy **** for about two years, *****ing about how your winning lottery ticket requires you to commute to collect the money.

Butt hurt? About what exactly? Are you sure you aren’t a 15 year old troll?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you go back and re-read my post, you will see that is exactly who I was referencing, the guys who get hired with a pre-meditation of going to training and then right away dropping mil leave.

That $209 an hour on the triple will show those guys!

I do not commute. I just said that I can understand those who are frustrated they can’t hold their home town while new hires 18 months junior to them can.

My point is: if we could incentivize airframe pay better and modify seat lock rules to reduce training costs, then why wouldn’t we?

Who here doesn't care what a military guy does within the rules? Thanks for your service. You take whatever benefit you EARNED.

Lets re-litigate the Continental Airlines military discrimination lawsuit again shall we?

Seriously...…..what an idiotic thing to say. both in this post and in the previous post.

Military leave is fully protected by federal law, regardless of when the Commander in Chief activates you, voluntary, involuntary, etc.

if someone gets hired and then goes gets activated shortly after being hired it is what it is. The company is and should still be VERY delighted and very excited about hiring a fully trained, vetted, and qualified military pilot. it's a win win for the company, and Oscar Munoz is happy as a lark to have him or her on board, regardless of when they complete all of their UAL training requirements and hit the line.

I guess we should all just give back the 11.1 million dollar federal settlement/award then huuuh?

Seriously.....You don't seem to have a good handle on this.

Any benefit (tangible, or intangible) right, benefit of employment afforded to a non military employee shall be afforded to a military employee as if he/she was still actively employed and not on military leave.

ding ding ding....we got a winner!

It also remains to be fully settled as to how the sick leave will get handled, but I do believe that will be a winner too. Sick leave accrual happens for other types of leave, so military pilots should accrue sick leave too.

That's not in the law. I've spoken to more than one US DOT/DOL/DOJ lawyer, and Ombudsman, and military Jag attorney and USSERA experts at law schools. The words "abusive of USSERA" and "disingenuous" are not in the law. Moreover, a civilian employer is not even allowed to inquire as to your status in that regard to PREVENT discrimination in the hiring process. Allot like not having to say you're gay, or a lesbian, or a fig tree, or you're African American, American Eskimo, Cajun, etc.

Continental Airlines used to think the way you presented your argument. They got popped pretty hard for doing that. Had a guy get involuntarily activated while in new hire indoc. he got fired, and guess what, Continental got sued, and he was re-hired.

The CAL MEC had a history of cooperating with CAL management on this issue after PBS was shoved down the pilots throats due to reduction in force by management. The PBS formula failed to account for mil leave.....The system crashed. Not the fault of military employees.

Big picture.....When a person competes for a flying job at the majors they do so when they feel their timing, and preparation are ready. If they get hired, good for them. I'd rather see a military pilot get hired on then someone who hasn't paid any dues at all.

Mil pilots don't get out of probation regardless of orders. That probationary period still has to be completed and that's what really counts. who cares if they got a tour they need to complete. The guard and reserve is still under-staffed. They got staffing problems too. Military necessity trumps civilian employers feelings. it is what it is.

https://pilotlawcorp.com/current-cas...-holdings-inc/

https://www.cohenmilstein.com/case-s...rra-litigation

The duffer case was the case that won it.

That case was born from this case......any questions?

https://www.ca5.uscourts.gov/opinion...05-CV0.wpd.pdf

and this is the original filing...https://law.justia.com/cases/federal...173/702369/43/

No one is arguing it’s the law, And no one is disputing the legality of taking military leave.

I was merely pointing out that those who abuse it and knowingly take a training spot from someone else with the full intent of dropping mil leave right after training are selfish. Maybe you are in that category (and therefore a little sensitive of it) or maybe not. Either way, my view of the situation remains unchanged.

And yes, I was wrong about b-fund, but that doesn’t change the rest.

I am not in that category, but I was horrifically offended at watching military pilots get discriminated upon by Continental Airlines management. Over and over again.

It's a sensitive subject because I had to battle for these folks and go to war with douchebag management pilots who couldn't hack it on the line and were hiding from the flight deck by hiding behind their desks.

to make matters worse, the CAL MEC, who was taking these military pilots dues money was inept, inefficient, and in bed with management and had no stomach for a fight. They should have never take their dues money if they weren't willing to fight for their rights.

We shouldn't have to go to war against management in order to help those that are actually going to war for us!

But, hey, fights on. I am cool with you having your opinion based on your view of the situation. But, it's really not a situation. it rarely happens. Most guys try and work it out with their commanders to leave them be while they are in training for the airlines. They make up UTA's and as much training as they can on the front-side so they can be gone from their guard/reserve unit for a few months.

An AGR tour sucks just as bad as being a junior plebe on the narrow-body in SFO or EWR. I wouldn't want to be in the guard/reserve today, and in today's politically correct no-fun climate of insanity.

This escalated quickly from the vacancy bid to attacking military pilots. What the hell? It’s nobody’s business, the end.

Can we just stay on topic

“An AGR tour sucks just as bad as being a junior plebe on the narrow-body in SFO or EWR. I wouldn't want to be in the guard/reserve today, and in today's politically correct no-fun climate of insanity.”

This sums it ip perfectly! Yet, I feel like some airlines, mainly FedEx and Delta are shying away from AGR’s. I know they can’t openly discriminate for this reason, but who’s stopping them? They don’t give TBNT reasons nor do they have to. I hope United isn’t like this as I’m Nervously waiting for my post interview call this week. I’m AGR but I made sure to tell them I was ready to retire ASAP for the reasons listed above.

The pool of highly qualified applicants is beginning to get shallow and the airlines know they can’t afford to turn their noses up at military pilots, regardless of their current military status.

Good luck on the call!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Next vacancy sometime next month? Medium size I hear? MOAB in Dec? Hotel? Trivago.

Has the massive 2020 summer bid already happened or is there yet a bigger bid to come with bigger movement?

Exactly!!! Holy thread drift Batman!!! This forum lives in the life of squirrel!!! Look squirrel!!!

I just talked to my LEC Rep the other day, and he said that the next couple of bids are going to be big bids. That is what they are being told by the Company. For what that’s worth???