Originally Posted by Winston (Post 2914728)

I can’t figure out why any pilot would have a problem. Every guy ahead of me on mil leave effectively moves me up a number when I bid every month.

That’s a good thing.

Originally Posted by FlewNavy (Post 2914723)

Never heard of a civ background pilot complain about mil leave. Most of the people that really take issue with mil leave ABUSE are separated or retired military. The issue is with the intent of USERRA vs the letter of the law. It was intended for NON-CAREER military to have protection and it can be argued that it is unethical for career military to take an official/unofficial sabbatical from their military career to start a civ career willfully knowing that they will drop mil leave for up to 5 years to secure a govt pension. There aren't many that have chosen this particularly route but enough have done so that it has made it more difficult for veterans between 14-18 years of service to get interviews based on anecdotal evidence only. Those that have decided to use the law to return to a full time military career have secured a very good deal (have your cake and eat it too) when formerly most have had to make a choice to get a seniority number or get an active duty pension. I haven't personally seen the "mil leave to drop undesirable trips" but I know several that have dropped 3-5 years mil leave the moment they have consolidated.

US Code for background info only so y'all can decide for yourself:

§4301. Purposes; sense of Congress
(a) The purposes of this chapter are-
(1) to encourage noncareer service in the uniformed services by eliminating or minimizing the disadvantages to civilian careers and employment which can result from such service;
(2) to minimize the disruption to the lives of persons performing service in the uniformed services as well as to their employers, their fellow employees, and their communities, by providing for the prompt reemployment of such persons upon their completion of such service; and
(3) to prohibit discrimination against persons because of their service in the uniformed services.

Lets get back to talking about MOABs and new hires unhappy with the 756.

Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 2914542)

It's threads (and some comments) like these that make me wish people would actually put their real names on their comments'



Ya want to change how seniority is assigned in your newhire class.. ok.

But man up (or woman up!) and put your name on your post.



Ya think 2 yr seat lock sucks on a 756 out of newhire training.. ok.

But man up (or woman up!) and put your name on your post.



Ya think that Military guy/gals work the system by using mil leave.. ok.

But man up (or woman up!) and put your name on your post.

* For the record, some (probably) do.. but not the majority!



End of the day, some of these comments just make a lot of us shake our heads.. it's all bull****.



Now.. back to the MOAB coming in 2 weeks!



FS, FP and FtC!

Always

Motch

(Peter "Motch" Matschulat.. 756 FO EWR)

Originally Posted by detpilot (Post 2914742)

So after putting my kids to bed, I sit down at the computer and line up my squadron schedule with my United schedule. I see that the only 2 opportunities for that night landing I need so bad fall during United trips. I'm supposed to drop the trip that is most desirable to me because doing otherwise is "artificially boosting my seniority," according to a guy on the internet. Got it.

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Originally Posted by detpilot (Post 2914742)

So after putting my kids to bed, I sit down at the computer and line up my squadron schedule with my United schedule. I see that the only 2 opportunities for that night landing I need so bad fall during United trips. I'm supposed to drop the trip that is most desirable to me because doing otherwise is "artificially boosting my seniority," according to a guy on the internet. Got it.

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Originally Posted by Floyd (Post 2914731)

Put the monocle back in Colonel Klink. I was not complaining about mil leave. A was agreeing to the Cost of Freedom comment. The guy who made the "system drag" comment regarding mil leave is shameful.

Originally Posted by FlewNavy (Post 2914762)

I didn’t say you or imply (Flyd) that you were complaining. I was offering my insight that there were very few that had issues with mil leave and the only people that I personally have seen taken issue believe that it was a personal ethics issue and nothing more.

Originally Posted by Oskeewowow (Post 2914744)

I'm not dumb enough to post my name on an internet forum, but I'll be sure to bring up all my grievances to you the next time we cross 30 west together....


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Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 2914804)

Absolutely nothing "dumb" about it.. guys use to do it before and some still do.
Most people on here already knew me as "Motch" but with all the newhires on board, no reason NOT to identify myself.
Nothing to hide. Never have, never will.

But people throwing out grenades just to stir the pot without identify themselves is a ***** thing to do (and yes, I know that word will get censored!).
My opinion.

Look forward to our chat at 30W. Most people who know me know I'm very vocal.. along with knowing alot about the contract and some of the loopholes.
No problem sharing my info.

Always
Motch
Oh..
Fly Safe, Fly Professionally & Fly the Contract!

Originally Posted by sonnycrockett (Post 2914928)

I may have never always agreed with Motch, but I can't think of a better Union brother to have in the trenches. We all have our opinions and that is fine but we all need to see the bigger picture!

Motch is good people....

Originally Posted by Oskeewowow (Post 2914744)

I'm not dumb enough to post my name on an internet forum, but I'll be sure to bring up all my grievances to you the next time we cross 30 west together....


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Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald (Post 2915050)

Uhhh….guess I'm not too smart.

C-141's 708th/710th Travis AFB. 1 day notice of mil leave on Aug 2, 1990.....for a year. Who was inconvenienced here?

Originally Posted by WarEagle28 (Post 2914533)

I’m glad the men and women serving in the military protecting your freedom of speech are “a drag” and “a cost without return”. Without that freedom of speech, We wouldn’t be able to hear your pompous a**, congratulations!

Crawl back in your hole, troll!

Originally Posted by Thor (Post 2915101)

I have 2 honorable discharges, how many do you have?

Those pilots who abuse USSERA serve in a volunteer force, nobody’s been conscripted, drafted, or forced to serve. To claim some moral high ground for “god and county” is a load of horse poop. Every reservist and guard bum I’ve flown with answers the same way when I ask “why do you do it?”. The answer is always “for the retirement”. In fact, if you were to take away the personal enrichment and financial incentive of a military retirement, how many pilots would hide behind USSERA?

As far as being a drag on the system, as pointed out; training, benefits, and extra manpower are all real excess costs borne by the company for which there’s zero ROI. Yes, that is a drag on the network.

Originally Posted by Dave Fitzgerald (Post 2915050)

Uhhh….guess I'm not too smart.

C-141's 708th/710th Travis AFB. 1 day notice of mil leave on Aug 2, 1990.....for a year. Who was inconvenienced here?

Originally Posted by 82spukram (Post 2914536)

Bronco

It must of been shocking to hear that seniority in indoc was age based. Nobody ever explained that to you? Like when they offered the CJO? In 2013 that was made very clear.....enjoy the lawsuit. BTW I was the 8 ball of my class....that means I will make more money, more contributions to the 401k, and longer timeframe in the highest paying seats then any other classmates and I get to retire in the top 100 which is something none of my other classmates can say. So yeah for 20 months I had to commute....I don’t know how I survived this injustice.

Originally Posted by WarEagle28 (Post 2915117)

Ive had 2 honorable as well, working on my 3rd (thank you for your service Thor) ...We will just have to agree to disagree on this subject.


Now where’s that bid

Originally Posted by Thor (Post 2915101)

I have 2 honorable discharges, how many do you have?

Those pilots who abuse USSERA serve in a volunteer force, nobody’s been conscripted, drafted, or forced to serve. To claim some moral high ground for “god and county” is a load of horse poop. Every reservist and guard bum I’ve flown with answers the same way when I ask “why do you do it?”. The answer is always “for the retirement”. In fact, if you were to take away the personal enrichment and financial incentive of a military retirement, how many pilots would hide behind USSERA?

As far as being a drag on the system, as pointed out; training, benefits, and extra manpower are all real excess costs borne by the company for which there’s zero ROI. Yes, that is a drag on the network.

Originally Posted by Sniper66 (Post 2914467)

Stay away from been a union volunteer
The me me me attitude is dangerous for the 13150 minus 1 pilot seniority at UAL

FYI I am 46 years old and in the 60 percent of the seniority as of today

Originally Posted by Broncofan (Post 2915164)

Did I say that I was going to sue? Nope. I just said someday, someone is going to sue and I think they will win. I knew perfectly well what was going to happen going into indoc, that doesn't mean it's right though. Listen, I'm not going to change any ones opinion on here because we all seem to have stubborn opinions. I'm sorry the older crowd has time and money to make up, i get that. However I had kids at home too, I was a zombie commuting across the country. And that would be fine if it were completely random, and it's still fine, that was years ago. But to say someone deserves more seniority than me just because he is older? Sorry not buying it.

Originally Posted by horrido27 (Post 2915253)

Not looking to start a fight here... but there is something that needs to be corrected.
It's based on where you are in YOUR unionized NewHire class.
There has to be some sort of determining who is "Senior" and who is junior. Be what may, our airline and union has decided that within the class, Senior is based on age.

Everyone entering into employment with United knows that.
Therefore, if someone somewhere decides to "sue" one day, it might be a tough sale. On top of that, that individual will become a pariah within the this pilot group.
Could it happen.. sure. But I think it's gonna be a tough sale.

Guess pilots are upset at your post because we have done it a certain way for so long and now someone (and can I assume you're semi young?) comes in and basically calls what we consider fair.. unfair.

I don't see it changing until maybe you and some of the younger generation get themselves into management and even then, you will always have pilots on the other side fighting this idea.

Not sure how all the other airlines do it (DAL, AAL, FedEx, UPS, SWA, JB, etc..) but then again.. it doesn't matter because as someone posted earlier, it's hard to claim Age Discrimination when pilots of all ages are hired. Heard of someone at 6o hired a few years back!
Not sure if the law would apply to how a company/union determines Seniority within a class.

Always
Motch

Originally Posted by Broncofan (Post 2915164)

But to say someone deserves more seniority than me just because he is older? Sorry not buying it.

Originally Posted by webecheck (Post 2915262)

2 people start class. One is 61 and retires in 4 years, the other is 24 and retires in 41 years. You honestly have a problem yielding the seniority to the older new hire?

Originally Posted by Broncofan (Post 2915266)

Aren't we always told that in this career seniority is everything? Why just give it away?

Originally Posted by webecheck (Post 2915276)

We aren’t giving it away, we’re rewarding those who have been paving the way longer than yourself because everyone knows their mainline career will be shorter than everyone else’s in the class...and it’s only relative to about 20-40 numbers within one class out of 13k pilots.

Your opinion on this is astoundingly selfish and I honestly can’t believe you take issue with it. Without looking at your profile my guess is you came from a non union regional and got hired young.

Originally Posted by Itsajob (Post 2915280)

Getting hired young at a legacy and complaining about the old guys in your class being a couple of numbers senior is about as asinine as someone winning the lottery and complaining about the taxes.

Originally Posted by Broncofan (Post 2915281)

To be fair though I wouldn't have cared at all if there wasn't a 2 year seat lock for new hires.

Originally Posted by JimLaheyTPS (Post 2915327)

Stop whining about how unfair it is that class seniority is based on age. You are in a job that thousands are still trying their hardest to get on at and would gladly take that 756 seat lock and not bat an eye at the 58 year new hire being more senior than they are at age 33. Everyone here is tired of hearing how unfair it’s been for you with kids and home and your commute. Those are you “problems”, not ours.

I was mid to low seniority in my class, forced to the 756 and commuted across the country and sat reserve for easily 6-8 months longer that my senior classmates on the 737 or Airbus. I did not give a rats ass once at how the dust settled with fleet assignments. I was at my dream job and on the path to making a boat load of money, flying piece of cake trips on an awesome fleet with great crew members and still being home more than I ever was as a commuter at a regional.

Originally Posted by Broncofan (Post 2915339)

This is my dream job, I love this job. I'm sorry it comes off as complaining. I'm giving my opinion and with that comes telling my experiences. However sounds like no one wants to hear it and we will stick to the way it has been because well.. that's the way it's always been I guess.

Originally Posted by Broncofan (Post 2915339)

This is my dream job, I love this job. I'm sorry it comes off as complaining. I'm giving my opinion and with that comes telling my experiences. However sounds like no one wants to hear it and we will stick to the way it has been because well.. that's the way it's always been I guess.

Originally Posted by DashTrash (Post 2915522)

If someone doesn’t like how we or any other airlines determines seniority in class, no one is holding a gun to their head to accept the job. Just sayin!!! If someone accepts employment, they accept everything that goes along with that employment. People should not expect to get something that they shouldn’t be able to get. I’m sure that there is another individual that would gladly accept all of the terms and conditions associated with employment here at United.

Originally Posted by rvfanatic (Post 2915560)

It doesn’t matter to anyone bringing it up. We already have thousands behind us in a very short time period. It’s called looking out for the junior. The most selfish act is to look forward and not care about anyone else except those senior to you. Bringing up ways to recruit and retain the best is anything but selfish.

Originally Posted by Airhoss (Post 2915540)

Nope... as mentioned above it used to be last four digits of your SSN.
2XXX worked out for me pretty well.

Originally Posted by DashTrash (Post 2915522)

If someone doesn’t like how we or any other airlines determines seniority in class, no one is holding a gun to their head to accept the job. Just sayin!!! If someone accepts employment, they accept everything that goes along with that employment. People should not expect to get something that they shouldn’t be able to get. I’m sure that there is another individual that would gladly accept all of the terms and conditions associated with employment here at United.

Originally Posted by pilotgolfer (Post 2915570)

Have you happened to notice the new hire rate now starts with a 9? We have looked out for the new hires. We also give them a hotel for initial training. Other things I would like to see fixed...change the rules for profit sharing so new hires get a pro rated amount for the time they were on property. Bring back consolidation lines for the month after you finish OE.

This thread has gotten dumb.