United Airlines poised to slash payroll costs
03-24-2020, 05:55 PM
#201
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Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
Originally Posted by Andy
AxlF16 was asking you how long you've been at United. Clearly, you were hired well after 9/11.
United used to have an extensive cargo operation, including dedicated cargo aircraft and an Anchorage cargo base. It was a pretty robust cargo operation. Then, sometime prior to the then-CFO, Duda, dismantled United's cargo operation. He stated, 'there's no money in cargo'.
After 9/11, he left United and went to an Indian airline, which he was able to put out of business. A real 'talented' senior manager.
But we still have a cargo operation; it's just much smaller than it used to be. United earned $1.2B in cargo revenue in 2019. (page 43 of the 10K).
United used to have an extensive cargo operation, including dedicated cargo aircraft and an Anchorage cargo base. It was a pretty robust cargo operation. Then, sometime prior to the then-CFO, Duda, dismantled United's cargo operation. He stated, 'there's no money in cargo'.
After 9/11, he left United and went to an Indian airline, which he was able to put out of business. A real 'talented' senior manager.
But we still have a cargo operation; it's just much smaller than it used to be. United earned $1.2B in cargo revenue in 2019. (page 43 of the 10K).
Andy
ANC DC10 cargo operation was a disaster let’s be serious now
wrong plane and always broke
they sold some 747-2 to other cargo operators and that aircraft should have been converted not the 10
BTW the 400 or some older 777s would have been ideal for cargo today
Wouldn’t you agree?
Last edited by Sniper66; 03-24-2020 at 06:35 PM.
03-24-2020, 06:25 PM
#202
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Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Originally Posted by Sniper66
ANC DC10 cargo operation was a disaster let’s be serious now
wrong plane and always broke
wrong plane and always broke
The "smartest guys in the room" (aka the bumbling UAL exec team) had a great idea and perfect timing for the expanding cargo market, they just had no idea how to execute.
It was a classic case study example of management failure as those UAL cargo DC-10s then successfully flew for another 20 years after UAL dumped them.
03-24-2020, 07:33 PM
#204
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Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,888
Originally Posted by MaxQ
You have it right Blackhawk.
This applies to any airline...or any other company for that matter. Any assets can be used to finance a buyout, turning a healthy airline/company overnight into one with massive debt that is almost impossible to repay.(remember Northwest and Al Chechi and his band of robbers) But it’s ok because a lot of finance people and shareholders make a ton of money and it just makes a bunch of unionized workers more likely to either lose their jobs or take huge pay cuts. Win/Win for those with a certain worldview.
My personal view is it should not even be legal. I can’t think of any scenario where allowing this activity does anything but extract wealth from the nation and create misery for large numbers of people.
I am also enough of a realist to know that no serious restrictions will be put on what the extremely rich and powerful can do to extract wealth from pretty much any source in the country.
Hence to avoid such predations...kind of what you said. Rather than carry too much cash and unencumbered assets, distribute it to those who made it. The workers.
Ok...going to go check the temperature in hell now, see if it’s dropping.
This applies to any airline...or any other company for that matter. Any assets can be used to finance a buyout, turning a healthy airline/company overnight into one with massive debt that is almost impossible to repay.(remember Northwest and Al Chechi and his band of robbers) But it’s ok because a lot of finance people and shareholders make a ton of money and it just makes a bunch of unionized workers more likely to either lose their jobs or take huge pay cuts. Win/Win for those with a certain worldview.
My personal view is it should not even be legal. I can’t think of any scenario where allowing this activity does anything but extract wealth from the nation and create misery for large numbers of people.
I am also enough of a realist to know that no serious restrictions will be put on what the extremely rich and powerful can do to extract wealth from pretty much any source in the country.
Hence to avoid such predations...kind of what you said. Rather than carry too much cash and unencumbered assets, distribute it to those who made it. The workers.
Ok...going to go check the temperature in hell now, see if it’s dropping.
03-25-2020, 01:58 AM
#205
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,160
Originally Posted by cadetdrivr
The cargo "operation" was an operational nightmare after that genius Rono Dutta first moved, then sold, all the spare parts. It was a nightmare for reliability and the customers fled..
03-25-2020, 05:37 AM
#206
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Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Guppy Capt
Posts: 151
So I was glancing over at the Delts forum to see how those guys are doing. I ran into this post.
Quote: Originally Posted by flyallnite View Post
Ya fooled me once Ed! Twice now, you've turned billions of buybacks into smoke, and now you want me to hand over more money, after you and guys like you took my pension, cut my pay twice, and stiff armed raises in good times. Your middle men are doing nothing for my safety on the line, and we are being asked to do more with far less. My 401k is in the tank, profit sharing will be zero, and there will probably be furloughs. Go ask your beloved shareholders for some of that green. I'm tapped out.
He couldn’t have worded my sentiments better. Just replace Ed with Tilton, Small-sack, and Munoz.
Quote: Originally Posted by flyallnite View Post
Ya fooled me once Ed! Twice now, you've turned billions of buybacks into smoke, and now you want me to hand over more money, after you and guys like you took my pension, cut my pay twice, and stiff armed raises in good times. Your middle men are doing nothing for my safety on the line, and we are being asked to do more with far less. My 401k is in the tank, profit sharing will be zero, and there will probably be furloughs. Go ask your beloved shareholders for some of that green. I'm tapped out.
He couldn’t have worded my sentiments better. Just replace Ed with Tilton, Small-sack, and Munoz.
03-25-2020, 05:38 AM
#207
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Joined APC: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,083
Here is an interview from yesterday with the CEO of Altimeter Capital, a large UAL shareholder. He starts talking about UAL at about the 5:30 mark.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/2...-gerstner.html
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/2...-gerstner.html
03-25-2020, 07:08 AM
#208
Stuck Mic
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,059
Originally Posted by CousinEddie
Here is an interview from yesterday with the CEO of Altimeter Capital, a large UAL shareholder. He starts talking about UAL at about the 5:30 mark.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/2...-gerstner.html
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/2...-gerstner.html
quick recap for those who didn’t want to watch it:
they still own all their United Shares
they shorted other airlines during the drop
never expected revenue to fall to essentially 0
they bought more United Shares at low/lower prices
$150 mil a day in payroll costs aren’t sustainable and need .gov intervention
the airline industry will look different coming out of this, there will be some winners and some losers but United will be around.
special project where big money investors want to buy into a couple of hard hit leisure based stocks and United is part of that
thinks stock will get back to where it was or higher but will be longer than a few months to get there
03-25-2020, 07:21 AM
#209
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Joined APC: May 2007
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 1,982
Originally Posted by Firsttimeflyer
quick recap for those who didn’t want to watch it:
they still own all their United Shares
they shorted other airlines during the drop
never expected revenue to fall to essentially 0
they bought more United Shares at low/lower prices
$150 mil a day in payroll costs aren’t sustainable and need .gov intervention
the airline industry will look different coming out of this, there will be some winners and some losers but United will be around.
special project where big money investors want to buy into a couple of hard hit leisure based stocks and United is part of that
thinks stock will get back to where it was or higher but will be longer than a few months to get there
they still own all their United Shares
they shorted other airlines during the drop
never expected revenue to fall to essentially 0
they bought more United Shares at low/lower prices
$150 mil a day in payroll costs aren’t sustainable and need .gov intervention
the airline industry will look different coming out of this, there will be some winners and some losers but United will be around.
special project where big money investors want to buy into a couple of hard hit leisure based stocks and United is part of that
thinks stock will get back to where it was or higher but will be longer than a few months to get there
was that guy a fighter pilot? He referenced an analogy of being in fighter cockpit.
03-25-2020, 07:22 AM
#210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,825
Originally Posted by Firsttimeflyer
quick recap for those who didn’t want to watch it:
they still own all their United Shares
they shorted other airlines during the drop
never expected revenue to fall to essentially 0
they bought more United Shares at low/lower prices
$150 mil a day in payroll costs aren’t sustainable and need .gov intervention
the airline industry will look different coming out of this, there will be some winners and some losers but United will be around.
special project where big money investors want to buy into a couple of hard hit leisure based stocks and United is part of that
thinks stock will get back to where it was or higher but will be longer than a few months to get there
they still own all their United Shares
they shorted other airlines during the drop
never expected revenue to fall to essentially 0
they bought more United Shares at low/lower prices
$150 mil a day in payroll costs aren’t sustainable and need .gov intervention
the airline industry will look different coming out of this, there will be some winners and some losers but United will be around.
special project where big money investors want to buy into a couple of hard hit leisure based stocks and United is part of that
thinks stock will get back to where it was or higher but will be longer than a few months to get there
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