Andy

Well, with all of your worldly experience in this business, you should be able to figure out what could happen during shoulder months (Sep, Oct, Nov, Jan, Feb, Mar, Apr) if this were to be implemented. I know what I'd do if I were management.

Freight Dawg

I agree with with your general premise about the common human fallacy. However, until the company steals 10’s (in some cases 100’s) of thousands of your own money out of your own bank account, it’s only stories to you. Do you have kids? I can almost guarantee your perspective on life changed after you had kids. You know plenty of people who are parents, but you don’t really know what it’s like until you become a parent. When the company actually rapes you, your tune will change.

duvie

painting my comment as though I’m claiming to have an excess of experience is silly, you guys can argue with me without being petty (despite my very sarcastic response, sorry about that). I’m just saying I was there too. I didn’t have 2 kids in college and a spouse who was used to a high standard of living (and An ex-wife, a sports, car, boat and airplane). But it still wasn’t pretty.

In a scenario where the LOA sunsets and the company disregards this, what stops them from changing other aspects of the UPA unilaterally? Seriously? In a situation where the company is writing their own rules, we are fairly far removed from normal UPA operation and I would hope MPG would be farther down the priority list. How do we know they won’t come after their contributions to our PRAP? You can take doomsday as far as you want, but once you cross the bright line of any UPA abrogation, you’re in a world that is... wait for it.... TERRIFYING, as anyone who has flown through a bankruptcy can attest.

my point is that it’s not like the company is going to just pick and choose which parts of the UPA they adhere to. It’s a kind of all-or-nothing deal

duvie

you’re right. I’m speaking theoretically, I didn’t have kids then, so the pain/anger isn’t burned into me. I can understand the *feeling* of “hell-no at any cost”.... I just don’t know if it’s the most logical choice.

thanks for being gentle with me freightdawg, I didn’t know you had it in you :-P

Freight Dawg

I usually don’t. You just caught me a good day.

Andy

Look, I've been furloughed twice, but I've still paid for both of my kids' colleges in full and dumped the high cost wife when I was a probie back in 2000. Current wife is frugal and we could both retire tomorrow with no negative impact on our standard of living because we've saved a lot over the years. This isn't about money for me. It's what the company could do with a lower MPG.

You're taking the exact wrong approach to keeping the company in check. The only thing that will limit furloughs is hard caps on flying hours because when there are furloughs, there will be BESs where they're short. They'll offer premium pay and some pilots being what they are, will fly their butts off even with guys on the street.
So if you're really concerned about limiting furloughs, think caps, not floors. But the company won't want those and neither will our credit ***** pilots so even that's just urinating in the wind.

If you cannot wrap your cranium case around floors and caps, I cannot help you.

rvfanatic

While not a concession (since it’s in their contract), many at FedEx believe that 4.a.2.b which reduced MPG (while inappropriately applied) did in fact prevent furloughs in 2008. There is so much misinformation on this topic out of fear. Where are the comms from ALPA on this?

AxlF16

Its not fear, and what exactly do you want ALPA to say? Dhould we have an open town hall discussing ideas on portions of the contract we want to give up? Seriously. Have you called your rep to ask? Have you sent any pdrs asking specific questions?

iahflyr

Is there really anyone at FedEx or United who doesn’t know that lowering MPG directly saves furloughs? I know there are plenty of senior pilots who would rather keep their 300k a year paychecks instead of working less hours to save some junior furloughs, and that is their decision. But no one in their right mind should be disputing that lowering MPG directly saves furloughs. It’s simple math.

Thor

You’ve covered a lot of ground in the last week or so since calling other pilots “scab-like” who didn’t agree with your charge to what many see as concessions. I truly hope the process has been educational for you, and further, I hope you’d consider focusing this conversation within an LEC meeting where it belongs. Inside the union hall, you’ll get accurate background info and have to opportunity to be the catalyst for change.

What you’ve accomplished here on APC is like public masterbation - sure it feels good to you, but honesty nobody wants to see it. Dive in and be the change ALPA needs if that’s what guides you, but in public, how about letting the union speak on your behalf?