Airline Pilot Central Forums

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- United (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/)

- - Downgrade (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/united/129964-downgrade.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by aileronjam (Post 3075642)

So how did the furloughed CAL pilots end up in front of UAL pilots since they had no job... hired 8 years after the pilots they went in front of... and had less than a year of longevity? Just curious.

None of the of 147 CAL furloughees went ahead of any UAL pilots that weren't furloughed also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotcher (Post 3075653)

None of the of 147 CAL furloughees went ahead of any UAL pilots that weren't furloughed also.

That doesn't answer the question.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aileronjam (Post 3075658)

That doesn't answer the question.

nevermind....goodnight!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Levigarrett (Post 3075525)

Furloughed means you didn’t have a job. If you were furloughed twice you spent the better part of 10 years not working for United. You were never senior at UAL. Furlough means you get zero credit. The ISL reflects that.=10pt

What about UAL 1998 hires that were never furloughed and placed with CAL 2005 hires? Those 7 years didn’t count for anything. Its okay because with it taking 20 years to hold Captain based on this displacement, if we merger with another carrier, there are going to be a lot of BrandX pilots hired in 2013 at their carrier placed ahead of CAL 2005 hires (who are now guppy FOs) since they can’t hold Captain. Then they will see how much their longevity matters in mergers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aileronjam (Post 3075658)

That doesn't answer the question.

To answer your question, there were CAL pilots who were furloughed from 2001-2004 who were placed ahead of UAL 1997 and 1998 hires who were never furloughed at UAL. The pilots from CAL and UAL who were on furlough when the merger closed were all feathered together at the bottom of the list, except for the more senior UAL furloughees with 8+ years longevity placed with CAL pilots with about 4 years longevity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knotcher (Post 3075674)

nevermind....goodnight!

Best answer yet.

ugh, can we please give this a rest? UAL hire March 2000. Furloughed twice. Career expectation, retire around 700. last 5 years <3000. Wide body Capt. Now, retire just under 2300, break 3000 just before last year(bye-bye WB Capt). Career expectation used to be a big thing in SLIs too. I am not complaining. I had 0 control over it so don't get my blood pressure up. I think BOTH airlines are better off merged than separate. I also think I am having a better career too. Most are. More bases to choose from, more airplanes, heck of a lot more locations to fly to, better work rules, nicer hotels, premium time, no cap/bank, better pay (almost back to Contract 2000 pay), the list goes on. Please let it go. Unless you are senior to me. Then, let it eat you up, give you stress issues and you have to leave :) Rant over.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T333 (Post 3075960)

ALPA merger policy between two ALPA pilot groups is only a goal for the respective merger committees. It is written by a BOD committee and becomes a "policy." There is no date of hire, longevity, career expectation, feathering, or fences involved. Just what is on the minds of the policy makers at a particular BOD meeting and it changes frequently. The respective committees can agree to anything they think is reasonable but is also subject to court challenge. They rarely agree anyway and this is one reason that most SLI's go to an arbitrator who is practically bulletproof.

So, what is the arbitrators guidelines? "fair and equitable as he sees it."

Arbitrators have a track record that can be reviewed before they are selected, as do the merger attorneys. These choices are no small matter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattc (Post 3072824)

ReadOnly, You are correct. It has NOTHING to do with anything. The fact that I was furloughed by United should in no way be used as some justification for someone saying I should have been "stapled" below CAL pilots who were hired EIGHT years AFTER I was hired by UAL. I thought I was totally over the "civil war" ****** but some folks here are (pun intended) tearing off the scab. I have flown with many excellent LCAL pilots (flew out of EWR for 1.5 yrs on the 757). I believe that if you are a doosh, you're a doosh, if you're not, you're not. Doesn't matter what legacy carrier you came from, if you were military or GA, if you were Army, or Navy, or USAF or whatever. If you're a tool, you're a tool. And I'm def calling out AirMic and Whaler as falling into the tool category. It is the most ignorant argument in the history of commercial aviation to argue that a non furloughed cal pilot should automatically be senior to a furloughed LUAL pilot. A ridiculous thing to say, yet there are many who say it. I will hazard to guess (and only calling out the tools here, I don't want to incite another round of the Civil War) that these individuals have a rejection letter from United. When I was applying, I applied to ever swinging Richard out there, but i wasn't going to stop until I got to either United, American or Delta. Who the hell chooses CAL when they have two letters in their hand (one from CAL and one from UAL). Get real. Just sayin'. Peace out.

And now everybody on this forum understands the arrogance of Legacy United “Brain Surgeons”. For the folks that haven’t lived it, this is how legacy united pilots think. Everybody who doesn’t think United is the best was “rejected” by United. You would have to have been retarded to choose United over CAL in the ‘05-‘07 timeframe. United was headed towards a third furlough and bankruptcy. Look at the SEC filings.

They were lucky that Continental bought them. “On March 31, 2013, United merged with and into Continental, with Continentalcontinuing as the surviving corporation of the Merger and as a wholly-owned subsidiary of UAL.”

On the off chance you are not familiar with why Legacy United has the industry moniker of “Brain Surgeon”, it’s because they bestowed this upon themselves. During the attempted acquisition of Frontier in 1986, the United MEC started that United pilots were “Brain Surgeons” while the Frontier pilots were merely “General Practitioners”. Nothing has changed since then. There was even a Legacy United Pilot given a 30 day unpaid holiday for screaming “SCAB” at an ‘05 hire Legacy Continental pilot in IAD. This Brain surgeon was so outrageous that he screamed this repeatedly and long enough on the train and then up the escalator that the Captain was able to call the FODM. The rant was caught on a recorded line! Lol! The ‘05 hire was not a scab btw. The LUAL furlough surgeon was simply upset that he didn’t become a narrow body captain straight from cashier at Walmart.

*sniff*

Air Mic is upset he can’t still be a wage slave for Smisek.