So……….. are you saying it would be ok to pay those who value time at home more than money providing that they’re fairly compensated a smaller percentage increase than those who are willing to be captains? NB FO’s get a 15% increase over current rates, CA gets 20%. 😁😁😁

 

I’ve been a wide body captain. I’ve made the money. I’m a slightly older guy that came here for the QOL improvements. The “well…you should aspire to be a captain some day” argument makes me want to puke. Seen it all before. Was hoping for better here.

 

With all due respect sir, this is flawed thinking. While it’s understandable that one could fall into this trap after decades of the schtick, it is entitlement to think your opinion holds more weight than someone hired after you. Seniority determines things like pay rate, first pick on schedules, bases, aircraft, and seat; it doesn’t grant a disproportionate amount of influence or more than 1 vote.

 

You reap what you sow. Why sow a fractured pilot group? Fractured pilot groups never get what they want. Here's to hoping GT thinks differently.

 

So you came here based on what you saw in our current book with the plan being to sit in the right seat and build quality of life etc because you have been a wide body captain etc etc? Do I have that right? Now, upon hearing that one way in which the company might want to address the lack of pilots desiring to take the extra responsibility and bid a captain position knowing he/she will be a junior reserve might be a larger % pay increase in the new UPA and you find that difficult to read(“makes me want to puke”). Could you not have just bid back to the right seat at the airline you were a “wide body captain” and “made the money” and saved yourself the time lost going through indoc/aircraft training? That way you could have used the seniority you had (I’m guessing you had significant seniority having been a wide body captain..) and made the lifestyle choice there instead of coming here and expecting this group (especially the top half of the seniority list) to radically structure a new UPA around a “slightly older guy that came here for the QOL”. Sorry bud- well over half of us have been on this wild ride for a decade or more here at UAL and it’s finally our time to see some big improvements.
I hope that the new UPA offers you what you want as well QOL wise but yes, reserve rules and the incentive to bid the left seat needs to be addressed.

 

it is not meant to be an insult.. just the opposite.
Today a senior pilot was unanimously voted in as our MEC Chair. Why wasn’t a new hire or 2-3 year hire who just finished their left seat upgrade?
Is it because GT may have more experience due to the fact that he has been here a while? More experiences that shape his opinions?

It is my understanding that we have hired pilots who are in their 50’s and even 60. Those pilots are not junior when it comes to age or life experience, but they are junior when it comes to United Pilot group experience.
We ALL get a vote on the contract, and hopefully we all have a say in how & what is negotiated.

We have all been taught that we are a team. That CRM & TEM are key. That someone needs to be the functional leader.
Guess it sucks to have a pecking order, but that is the real world.
Every pilot here probably has a wish list of what they want. But someone has to negotiate the final language and only then will you and I get a vote.

I think back to CAL as a newhire. We were offered LTD (though no health insurance for the first 6 months!) but if you didn’t take the LTD.. you couldn’t get into it later. Many junior pilots in my class opted out.. as they didn’t want to pay for,it when we were already only making $33 an hour!
Senior pilots tried to explain it to them.. but for some, it didn’t take,

When we are young we feel invincible. Nothing can stop us. But isn’t seniority within a group worth something?
IF someone feels offended by my view and words I won’t apologize but merely say it’s not meant to smear. If you (not this poster, CQK) take offense by it, so be it.

Come up to me at the next council meeting.. we’ll talk! Never hidden my name. We are all entitled to our opinions and shouldn’t be afraid to voice them. To me, It’s about comm and getting the message out about our history.
For the record too- every LUAL pilot I know told me how they were told (when hired) that they were at the top of the food chain. A healthy pension when they retired.. dignity and respect!
Ask yourself- what happened to it? Where did their pension go? Top of the food chain? D&R? Was that what was offered to this pilot group last June?

Always
Motch

 

lol.. so how does it work when I think that GT a d a 19-0 vote is a great thing? You need to jump onto the other side so you’re not in step with me?
No one ever said we were a “totally” fractured group. But if you expect everyone to blindly follow you or some others just in the name of unity.. well, expect to be disappointed. That got us TumiTa1~

I expect GT and our union has righted its course and with the Delta TA now up for a vote- let’s see what our deal is looking like in the next few months,
i have faith that it will be north of Deltas and while not everyone will be happy with everything- our union knows what is needed to appease this pilot group and create Unity.

Motch

PS) your meme is DEAD ON! This is the last deal where you and the post merger hires aren’t in the majority. And in 5 years you and the PMH’s will have the ability to change any and every thing that the Legacy group(s) had before! Hopefully you won’t have a merger around then to cause differences of opinions!

 

Why did so many junior pilots vote for a LOA that fractured the group and divided us into thirds then?

 

I was middle third and voted yes. In my opinion it was very unifying and I didn’t even hesitate in my yes vote. You viewed it as divisive. I guess we all view things differently. Fair enough.

 

​​​​​​The company changed things. Our contract gives them wide latitude in how they schedule reserves and they started using it. Also, where I (or others) came from have nearly doubled their pay in some cases. But I get it: I'm new here. I'll continue to avert my eyes and keep quiet. I've found a good technique is to look at the ground about ten feet in front of me.