That’s where I can see the company providing a bigger pay gap between left and right seat to attract people to upgrade. Both seats get inflation adjusted increases, but the left seat gets a bigger percentage bump. Minor improvements in reserve allow them to keep the flexibility that they want and gamble on fixing the problem by throwing money at it. Don’t necessarily think it’s the right fix, but one that they might counter with. I think that most line pilots would vote for it too since the majority are on NB fleets and aren’t on reserve.

 

Well hopefully the NC can see through that. The rules need fixing and the money needs to be there. We shouldn't have to choose. It's the companies problem.

 

It's completely this. We should propose nothing other than both a pay bump and reserve QOL improvements in exchange for nothing other than "pilots will actually volunteer to upgrade with these things." If the company balks at both, okay, make the CA bump higher and the FO bump lower. Or negotiate reserve QOL terms in exchange for that TPA co-domicile. There will be plenty of senior-ish CAs now who are going to find themselves much more junior in Florida (and FFS, don't just give the company TPA for free).

We made some significant gains at my last airline several years before the recent COVID pay increases. We didn't do it by saying, "it is what it is." We did it by 1) not accepting less than what we felt we deserved, and 2) actually negotiating with the company, not grandstanding or accepting no for an answer.

And to beat a few of you to it... no. I don't want to go back to where I came from. Let's instead bring that same approach here and bring some meaningful gains to everyone on property. Not just senior pilots, and not just junior pilots.

 

I’d agree. Line holders, myself included, are not willing to give up a single line holder protection to improve reserve. At the same time the company can’t get people to take upgrades under our current contract unless they improve reserve rules. I don’t think that FSB is going anywhere being that our line holder protections restrict the company more so than what occurs at our competitors, but rules ensuring transparency, defining how it is used, and sufficient add pay when it is used would be considered significant improvements by most. The company has to be able to staff short notice disruptions to operate. Without concessions from the line holders, some unpleasant aspects of reserve will remain, but they should be clearly defined and compensated accordingly.

 

First of all, I will never say "go back to where you came from".. never. However, therein lies the rub. If things were so much better where you (or others) came from.. why leave and come here to change things here.
And NO, I'm not saying that there aren't things that need changing (sick Leave, LTD, PBS, Scheduling, etc..). I'm saying that while everyone has a right to their opinions, we are a union pilot group and are based on Seniority. While there are times when two pilots are "equal" to their opinions, there are also times when the senior pilot has a bit more influence than the junior pilot.

I bolded "we deserve" in your comment. How many pilots were in your pilot group and what was their makeup?
At United, we probably have 14000+ish pilots who have a right to their own opinions. But there is no way that they all will be in lock step over "what we deserve" as the senior pilots have seen more and taken it in the shorts more, than the junior pilots. Then we also have 3 distinct groups. Did you know that there is still about @65 mil in a pot for Continental LTD pilots (of which there are "roughly" 31 pilots still out on LTD) [excuse me if my numbers are slightly off]. Why is a plan that is directly related to the CAL pilots part of a larger negotiated settlement?

This is why I say it's hard to get everyone rowing together, all the time. Hopefully we are rowing close enough, in step- BUT in the right direction!

It is a great time to be a new pilot. But it was also a great time to be a pilot in other times throughout history. And again, therein lies the problem as we don't teach "history".
A win win IS what we would all like. But we should also accept facts.
Fact- a company's sole goal is to turn a profit.
Fact- a company would love to have lowest possible labor costs.
Fact- a company will only improve QoL & Pay when they have to, ie.. can't get employees or losing their employees
Fact- as a union airline pilot, after 1-3 years it becomes extremely hard to leave and have to start at the bottom again

I (and probably) the majority of our pilot group WANT a Great Airline. We show up to work trying to do our best. For our Passengers, our fellow crewmembers and for our company.
A Strong Healthy company means less stress at the workplace and at home.

But-
I just finished my month on reserve (756 Capt, EWR). 7.. yes, 7 shortcalls. We have it in the UPA that the company CAN offer and assign pure Short Call lines. At 76 hours pay.
They do not do it. They would rather throw pilots on Short Call and gamble if they are used. And if not, the first 2 are free (no ADD Pay)
A win win would be to have SC lines.. but if the company won't do it and we will have to butt heads when this issue comes up during negotiations.

Not Personal, just Business.

Again, I would love to see reserve "Fixed" without spending a dime of pilot negotiating capital. But how?
I expect that since Delta's TA is worth 7.2B..ish (based on their statements), we will have to be looking at somewhere north of that amount.
Will the company spend all that on every section EXCEPT reserve rules? I don't think so.
Then, what are we willing to accept?

Should we see a greater split in Capt/FO Pay? Currently (based on ALPA's own study-) us and Delta have a FO's at 68.3% of Captains pay (12th yr). Should be open up that gap slightly?
Can't post the graph (not tech savy enough!) but..
US / Delta
2yr- 47.7% - 53.5%
5yr- 64.1% - 64.1%
10yr- 68.0% - 68.1%

That there might cause pilots to re-evaluate the reason to switch into the Left seat.
(For the record- have also though about less pay categories but more overrides, and also looking at a 13-15yr pay scale)
The responsibility of being the Head Pilot in Charge (LOL.. some will get it) is actually a great responsibility that may have been watered down over the past decade.
Should we not be greatly compensated for the added responsibility?

I EXPECT an ILC23 (TA) by 11 Apr 23. I also expect it will match and/or exceed Delta's.
Time will tell. But lets keep discussing these issues while looking at the past for history while listening to those who are senior and have gone through this before. Ya don't have to agree.. but lets communicate!

Always
Motch

PS) Sorry.. she was a long one!

 

Great Post..

For a while, many have been *****ing on here to "lose" Field Stand By. Something, (BTW) that both our own union (back during the Road Shows for our current UPA [UPA12]) and company said- "We don't anticipate using it" HA!

But now with Delta VAS (Voluntary Airport Standby) being in play- lets review

United
Assigned (ie.. no choice UNLESS it's offered and you pick it up)
Does not pay UNTIL 3rd unused FSB/SC (ie, first 2 are free.. 3rd one won't pay either IF they use you!)
required to be at the airport for 4 hours.

Delta
Voluntary (if built) (to both Reserve and Lineholders!)
Pays 3hrs of pay/no credit on top of their ADG (our MDP?)
required to be at the airport for 6 hours.

Which one is better? well.. no brain'r, the Delta one!
But, where does that leave us?

I have stated I understand the reasoning behind FSB, just felt that IF you put your uniform on and IF you're forced to hang out at the airport for 4 hours- you should get 1 hour of ADD Pay.
Now.. my minimum has changed~
2+ hours Pay, 4 hours max, Voluntary like Delta>

Lets see what the company thinks, and what our union does. At the end, we will all have a vote on this issue along with dozens of others!

Motch

 

Your arguments are completely all over the place and you basically just want what's only good FOR YOU, and are blind to any unity or gains for the pilot group as whole. You say you won't tell someone to go back to their old company, but then say they shouldn't try to make their new one better? You mention how senior pilots have more say, as if there aren't 25yr WB CAs here that are on reserve? Your argument instead for getting FOs to upgrade is to give them a lesser pay raise than CAs, again only asking what's good for YOU. You don't want new hires to get profit sharing because you would get a few less dollars on your own payout. You talk about how many millennial pilots are entitled and want things NOW (while also complaining about buying them food on an overnight) but almost every one of your posts you are advocating for contract improvements for your specific BES only. Do you not see the irony in your arguments? How can we have an "ILC23(19)", as you put it, with reserve rules worse than most regionals? Is an extra $10/hr worth it to make QOL miserable for 25%~ of the pilot group that will be on reserve at any given time? Luckily you are in the minority as almost every line pilot I have been with knows reserve needs to be fixed, especially with the massive shifting of the G line that has put many on reserve that have not had to sit reserve for a long time. You should take a look in the mirror before you continue to talk about entitlement and unity.

 

SFO 787 FOs on reserve, how often are you getting used?

 

got to love the run on sentence into the paragraph!

Ok, here goes-
1- Good for me? I have advocated a UPA that is good for EVERYONE. But, again- what is good for one pilot may not be good for the next. Give me an example (without a runon paragraph) where I have advocated something that would be good for the Local 756 Capt and ONLY the local 756 Capt? Hint- ya won't find it because things I (and others) have mentioned would benifit the pilot group as a whole and over a long period of time. I have NEVER advocated for anyone to not try and make it "better".. on the contrary, I have stated numerous times that pilots wanting to make a change (ie.. "better") should volunteer for a union position, they should participate, they SHOULD submit resolutions at their local council meeting. THAT is how change happens.
Just wondering, what have you done?

2- Of course there are 25yr WB Captains on Reserve here... would be interesting to know how many. Where do they live? On another thread someone mentioned he plays golf on reserve (as he/she) is local. Not that there aren't things to change in the reserve world here at U.. but if you don't understand that there is a difference between a Capt and a FO, and someone who has been here 5 years vs 25 years.. can't help ya.

3- FO's getting a smaller percentage of a payraise is something that was brought up by a pilot running for MEC Chair. It is a valid discussion. Looking at ALPA Contract Comparison Guide from 2022, you will see that there are differences in pay percentages per Capt/FO at different airlines and years. Why are you worried that a Capt will get a 18% raise and an FO will only get a 15% raise? Not even enough for you? Delta's TA mentions 18% pay raises as the floor.. but due to them changing their "categories" there are a large percentage of pilots getting even more than that. Guess that is bad in your eyes. Not fair enough?

4- Not a thread about PS. Want to attack me on that thread, go for it.

5- see (1). But I will add that as I am on the 756 (Left Seat) and was only on the 787 (Right Seat) for a short while, I do not fully understand how 5:20 min pay per day would affect the A320/73(guppy) drivers. But pretty sure it WOULD benefit them and would also take a guess that some of them will want to fly a different aircraft at some point in their career. Again, how is wanting better LTD something that affects only the 756 fleet? Improved Sick Leave accrual? Higher pay per day for Vacation and Training? I get that you're trolling.. but it's important for others who read this to understand both were I stand, and where you stand.
PS) NEVER Complained about buying FO's food on an overnight. It was a tradition that wasn't often used at Continental (unfortunately) and proud to do it now. You really don't know me if you think I'm complaining~

6- Yes, our reserve rules are bad. I also believe that it's dependent on many things. Some which we can control, others that we can't. It would seem that the reason pilots are choosing not to upgrade on the narrow bodies is their fear of being on reserve under our current rules. But ironically the widebodies do not have this problem. Yes, Global reserve is BS. A day off needs to be a DAY OFF. But with the next ILC23, we ALL expect changes to our reserve rules. Only question that some of us have asked/had talks about are- how much do we change, and what is the cost?
YES.. there is ALWAYS a cost to things. Would an extra $10 an hour be enough? I don't know.
Currently, we pay 2yr 73 Capt between $263 and $275. Delta has proposed $310 and $311. IF we were to offer our narrowbody Capts a slightly higher percentage of raise while not an equal percentage to the FO's? That bothers you? Isn't everyones goal to be a Captain? Again, Reserve rule fixes (like 16-18hr callouts, 12hours released from duty, FSB pays more and sooner.. same with SC. More days off and guaranteed days off.. bothers you as you think it only helps the EWR 756 Capt BES? Seriously dude.
Oh and thanks for telling me that we have 25% of the pilot group on reserve, at any given time. I was always taught that is hovered around the 15-20% but it was also something that everyone did at some point, but that they would spend their majority of time as LineHolders. Glad you're here to set me straight!

7- Minority! Cool. Not a problem. I was definetly in the minority when I voted against the extension back in 2016.. as I (and others) wanted a Full Contract. Opps.
Covid LOA.. yupe. Minority. Was concerned that it would divide the pilot group into 3 tranches. Send a bad message to the company. That there was an underlying goal from the MEC Chair. Yupe. Minority.
Also in the Minority when TA1 (Tumi) came out and I voted NO after seeing the Scope Change. Guess I was wrong on that one too. Next time I look in the mirror I will say- "Dude, you're always wrong!"

I get that this is a free forum. More for entertainment than anything else. But not just going to sit by and have an anonymous screen name change the message I put out~

Hopefully everyone reading these posts will see that there are still "screen names" that want to pull the pin from a grenade, toss it into the room and keep walking.
Today was a great day for our Union and pilot group. Yet I expect there will be those amongst us who will say - Another old legacy pilot...

Hang tough people~
Always
Motch

 

I think you may have missed the last several years of articles about people leaving/switching jobs to have a better work/life balance. I even jumpseated on a DAL flight and the Captain (in his low 30s) was talking about this. There are ton of young new hires, and a LOT of them don’t want to work 20+ days a month. They simply want to be fairly compensated for a job they love, and have a good mix of off-time and pay.

You also have a number of people who retired from the military, are collecting their retirement checks, and would rather have more days off than on (for once in their life), and still pull in a decent paycheck, which is bolstered by their retirement. They might also be sick of having a ton of responsibility at work.

So, no….not everyone’s goal is to be a Captain.