Vacancy 23-01V
09-28-2022, 01:29 PM
#102
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 527
Originally Posted by awax
Explain that.
Simesk was CEO alongside Tilton during the CAL/UAL merger which was heralded as “a no overlap” route structure combination. It’s true that to pass DOJ antitrust scrutiny, some routes were divested.
UAL pilots got shafted on the pre-merger 737 fleet shutdown and were frozen out of the west coast. But overall, I’m interested in hearing more about how the domestic route structure was torn down. CAL pilots got full access to the west coast, UAL pilots got to bid CLE and EWR. I mean a win win, right?
Simesk was CEO alongside Tilton during the CAL/UAL merger which was heralded as “a no overlap” route structure combination. It’s true that to pass DOJ antitrust scrutiny, some routes were divested.
UAL pilots got shafted on the pre-merger 737 fleet shutdown and were frozen out of the west coast. But overall, I’m interested in hearing more about how the domestic route structure was torn down. CAL pilots got full access to the west coast, UAL pilots got to bid CLE and EWR. I mean a win win, right?
Get over it , there's 2 sides to every story.
09-28-2022, 03:30 PM
#104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,099
Originally Posted by awax
In Seattle: Costco, Amazon, Boeing, Microsoft, and Weyerhaeuser is about it. Certainly no slouches by any measure, but those companies represent most of the business travel.
In San Francisco, Apple, Google, Uber, Facebook, Wells Fargo, Oracle, Yahoo!, Visa, and on and on when you look at all the next tier companies and Y-Combinator type incubators. The value of the SFO market when SEA was closed made it a no brainier. I've been through enough base closures to know they suck, but if the goal is to put resources where the money is, seriously in 2015, it wasn't even close.
As for Delta, combining Salt Lake and Portland as a west coast gateway, yes Seattle was certainly an improvement.
In San Francisco, Apple, Google, Uber, Facebook, Wells Fargo, Oracle, Yahoo!, Visa, and on and on when you look at all the next tier companies and Y-Combinator type incubators. The value of the SFO market when SEA was closed made it a no brainier. I've been through enough base closures to know they suck, but if the goal is to put resources where the money is, seriously in 2015, it wasn't even close.
As for Delta, combining Salt Lake and Portland as a west coast gateway, yes Seattle was certainly an improvement.
09-28-2022, 03:47 PM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 569
Originally Posted by threeighteen
The value of SFO was high, absolutely, but that's not exactly relevant. There was good money to be made in SEA and the company walked away and ceded the space to Delta.
09-28-2022, 03:55 PM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,099
Originally Posted by jerryleber
It actually is relevant. United was very small in SEA (not a hub) and once DAL started building up with Alaska already #1 there the decision to leave was easy for United. The largest player in a hub gets a disproportionate amount of the revenue and over time if their costs are in line with bleed the smaller players. United has the two best international gateways in EWR and SFO. The ROI of adding to those hubs likely dwarfs other options. Leaving JFK was idiotic because of the transcons. The high yield corporate customers don't want to get to the Hamptons via EWR.
Horizon (yes the same horizon that exists today) and several other regionals fed the SEA hub for UA at different times through history.
Leaving SEA was a mistake.
09-28-2022, 04:06 PM
#107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,437
Originally Posted by threeighteen
SEA was absolutely a hub...
09-28-2022, 04:14 PM
#108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,099
Originally Posted by Swakid8
It played a bigger role when UA was flying 747 classics to Asia along with Northwest. The Seattle pulled down started happening well before the UA/CO merger. As the range of WB increased, the importance of SEA decreased as SFO could be leveraged as United’s gateway to Asia with the 400s and triples. The same thing happened with the NRT hub. The Delta expansion was just the final straw.
09-28-2022, 04:27 PM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2022
Position: 787 FO
Posts: 569
Originally Posted by Swakid8
It played a bigger role when UA was flying 747 classics to Asia along with Northwest. The Seattle pulled down started happening well before the UA/CO merger. As the range of WB increased, the importance of SEA decreased as SFO could be leveraged as United’s gateway to Asia with the 400s and triples. The same thing happened with the NRT hub. The Delta expansion was just the final straw.
09-28-2022, 04:45 PM
#110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,437
Originally Posted by threeighteen
And instead of keeping it as a medium-cost placeholder to keep a competitor from creating a hub that would allow them to create inroads on Asia they just tucked tail and ran. Poor decision making.
Seattle has been a loss leader for Delta for long time when they set off to build up that hub even with it it being their primary pacific gateway. They were desperate for one. Staying and fighting for Seattle against DL and AS in a market that can’t sustain that kind of blood bath would have resulted trashed yields.
There was no benefit of maintaining the Seattle hub.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
