Our airplane is going to tell on us. So yes we need to be legal.

 

airplane sends takeoff weight. If you are over you will be doing a carpet dance. you are exceeding a limitation. Huge no no. Your company must turn it's head at limitation violations.

 

Our airplanes tell on us too, although maybe the parameters are looser, I'll have to ask next time I fly with someone in the ISMS organization. I know for example that if I'm flying 300 kts at 5,000 ft I'm going to hear about it, but not if it's 260 at 9,500.

Do you then have to wait until the calculated and the totalizer fuel are below planned takeoff fuel, or just the calculated? Because in the 777 there can be a big difference.

 

I understand the difference. Yes, the airplane will tell on us too.

The calculated FMC weight at point of dispatch, which is advance the throttles on the runway for TO must be at or below MGTO.

Our flt management will hang us out to dry. Anything goes wrong, including something as stupid as hitting a bird on TO, they will pile on...."..and why did you TO over gross??"

Yes I understand we have no idea what the actual TO weight is. In fact, 3 SYD trips ago, I'm pretty sure we TO about 12-15k over gross. We did everything we could to save fuel, and still landed with less that planned. Oh it wouldn't climb worth beans either. Prove it? no way to do it. But, that FMC number is something you can point at and say....yeah, that's it!

So, to answer your question, it would be calculated. Unless you have some sort of fuel system anomaly, they want us to use calculated.

 

Interesting, thanks, and sorry for the thread drift.

 

If you try and pull take off data over MGTOW it’ll kick back an error, thus you would have to take off with invalid data.

The ACARS and FOQA data is sent back every few seconds. Even if you were stupid enough to violate a published limit, the whole world is going to know. If you don’t know the exact weight of your airplane, or the excuse is “well standard pax weights aren’t accurate”… good luck keeping your ticket. You fly for Aerosucre or some other shady outfit?

To answer the OPs question, our Pacific flying has been slammed full of cargo. Yes we are weight restricting non revs for cargo. We had less than 500 lbs for SA’s on one of my recent flights.

 

Thats a weird statement. Happens on long haul flights. Most airlines even add some sort of warning to the weight and balance like “requires taxi fuel burn”. I have never noted anyone not waiting since everything on a modern aircraft is recorded and saved somewhere. The FAA actually audits a percentage of international flights. I had a friend violated for being 400lbs under his required redispatch fuel at the RDP. He climbed early for weather prior to the RDP which put him under the required fuel but he knew he would gain it back at the flight planned step location. FAA audited his flight and was not amused he continued to the destination airport.

 

Well, now you have. 28 years of long-haul flights and not once have I ever seen anyone burn extra fuel just to make the FMC happy. I’m glad that I work at a place where we are still allowed to use our common sense.

So what do you do if, after fueling, the totalizer reads 500 lbs. less than the calculated fuel (common on both the 777 and 787), but both are equal to or more than your planned block fuel? If you taxi out and take off when the totalizer reads planned takeoff fuel your FMC gross weight will be too high, and you will apparently get violated. But, if you wait until the calculated fuel equals planned takeoff fuel, then at your first waypoint you’ll be 500 lbs. behind (assuming that you use the lower of the two values, as we do).

What’s an RDP, a redispatch point? I think that that is weird.

 

When throttles are advanced for takeoff, the airplane automatically sends a message to our maintenance department that includes brake release gross weight.

Our 747s had a max gross weight of 875,000#, and a max taxi weight of 878,000#. Yes a shorter than expected taxi could result in a sit for a minute or three to burn off excess fuel.

Joe

 

When throttles are advanced for takeoff, the airplane automatically sends a message to our maintenance department that includes brake release gross weight.

Our 747s had a max gross weight of 875,000#, and a max taxi weight of 878,000#. Yes a shorter than expected taxi could result in a sit for a minute or three to burn off excess fuel.

Joe