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Originally Posted by 01110011
(Post 3542099)
We only had the stones to turn it down after AA immediately offered the exact same deal because it was such a con.
Originally Posted by Big E 757
(Post 3542005)
Your group had the stones to turn yours down, and so did AA. That sent a message to all of our management’s that we would not accept lackluster agreements.
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The “me too” kinda screws everyone. Why would UA management want to come in above this if they know DL will snap back up to 1% above? UA now CAN’T beat DL on pay, so they won’t try. It ensures DL will be the best paid by 1%, but puts a ceiling on pay across the industry. It’s a back door way to keep airlines from competing on pay without actually entering into an illegal collusive agreement. I have to think the “me too” was a request from DL management, not DALPA.
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Originally Posted by BlueInGreen
(Post 354241)
The “me too” kinda screws everyone. Why would UA management want to come in above this if they know DL will snap back up to 1% above? UA now CAN’T beat DL on pay, so they won’t try. It ensures DL will be the best paid by 1%, but puts a ceiling on pay across the industry. It’s a back door way to keep airlines from competing on pay without actually entering into an illegal collusive agreement. I have to think the “me too” was a request from DL management, not DALPA.
Guess they’ll just have to adjust quality of life and other items to be “industry leading” because we now obviously can’t be the highest paid. 20% contributions and 35% reductions in premiums anyone? Full retro? |
Originally Posted by BlueInGreen
(Post 3542410)
Why would UA management want to come in above this if they know DL will snap back up to 1% above? UA now CAN’T beat DL on pay, so they won’t try.
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Originally Posted by JTwift
(Post 3542251)
even if we got 18 hour lcr, it wouldn’t matter because we could still get hit with short call and FSB, every single day. If there’s no protection against unlimited SC/FSB Conversion, it doesn’t matter what the long call callout time is.
There is no airport standy in our contract, just be "propmptly available" which isn't defined anywhere but basically be able to report in 2 to 3 hours is considered OK, but with a "no air commute". In NYC that is determined by whatever airport is the closest to you (EWR, LGA, JFK) and if you are 2 hours from EWR and they call you to JFK at rush hour, you get there when you get there. LA which is our other multiple aiport base, they define it to LAX. (Probably because my ass would totally sit short call in San Diego using SNA as the "I can get here in 2 hours" point) 18 Hour LCR is nice. It opens up two more bases, maybe three to me that I can bid and sit long call at home. NYC has a witching hour where I live (ORF) where I can't make a 12 hour call out for 2-5 hours a night with the required backup, so I am in a "get on the AA RJ to JFK or drive" situation once or twice a year. For me, it would be nice that I'm not getting assigned a 0500 report at 1630 the day before just as the last flight on us to JFK leaves, they'd have to assign it by 11am the day before. Of course, the devil will be in the details (contractual language) There is a grumbling/rumor that the UNA guys (I was one) will be frozen out of retro for the time they were aircraftless. That's a hard NO vote from me if the language states as such. It will also be interesting how they treat mil leave and retro. |
Originally Posted by BlueInGreen
(Post 3542410)
The “me too” kinda screws everyone. Why would UA management want to come in above this if they know DL will snap back up to 1% above? UA now CAN’T beat DL on pay, so they won’t try. It ensures DL will be the best paid by 1%, but puts a ceiling on pay across the industry. It’s a back door way to keep airlines from competing on pay without actually entering into an illegal collusive agreement. I have to think the “me too” was a request from DL management, not DALPA.
There’s a limit of 2 snap ups in the DL AIP, so it’s not unlimited. Someone can absolutely leapfrog them over the course of 4 years. Would need to see a pay band chart with their new rates, though, to see how realistic that is. It’s higher in some categories than others. |
Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3542428)
For us (DAL) you can only do short call a max of 6 or 7 times a month, and that gets prorated down for CQ, vacation, etc. Current rules is it's hard to get past 2 SC unless everyone that could cover the slot they want your SC in has had 2 already.
There is a grumbling/rumor that the UNA guys (I was one) will be frozen out of retro for the time they were aircraftless. That's a hard NO vote from me if the language states as such. It will also be interesting how they treat mil leave and retro. |
Originally Posted by ThumbsUp
(Post 3542477)
There’s a limit of 2 snap ups in the DL AIP, so it’s not unlimited. Someone can absolutely leapfrog them over the course of 4 years. Would need to see a pay band chart with their new rates, though, to see how realistic that is. It’s higher in some categories than others.
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Originally Posted by Lumberg823
(Post 3542221)
Well we clearly see what not throwing a punch gets you vs actually using the weight of a unified pilot group to get what you deserve. What still sickens me is 6% of pilots voted for the Tumi Turd, do they really value their labor so poorly that they would accept a surrender, Tumi wasn’t a concessionary it was a surrender contract? And the LEC wastes of space who voted to send it to the rank and file…they were either so incompetent they didn’t read it, or they were so out of touch they thought it was a good deal, either way I’m not sure what’s worse. Actually doubling down and not resigning is worse. We are a laughing stock of the industry and actually set the bar so low for DL, we ended up hurting their negotiating position. Way to go UAL MEC. Any any LEC and remaining MEC who were involved in Tumi turd need to take a long hard look in the mirror and evaluate all the decision they have made in their lives.
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Originally Posted by CX500T
(Post 3542428)
For us (DAL) you can only do short call a max of 6 or 7 times a month, and that gets prorated down for CQ, vacation, etc. Current rules is it's hard to get past 2 SC unless everyone that could cover the slot they want your SC in has had 2 already.
There is no airport standy in our contract, just be "propmptly available" which isn't defined anywhere but basically be able to report in 2 to 3 hours is considered OK, but with a "no air commute". In NYC that is determined by whatever airport is the closest to you (EWR, LGA, JFK) and if you are 2 hours from EWR and they call you to JFK at rush hour, you get there when you get there. LA which is our other multiple aiport base, they define it to LAX. (Probably because my ass would totally sit short call in San Diego using SNA as the "I can get here in 2 hours" point) 18 Hour LCR is nice. It opens up two more bases, maybe three to me that I can bid and sit long call at home. NYC has a witching hour where I live (ORF) where I can't make a 12 hour call out for 2-5 hours a night with the required backup, so I am in a "get on the AA RJ to JFK or drive" situation once or twice a year. For me, it would be nice that I'm not getting assigned a 0500 report at 1630 the day before just as the last flight on us to JFK leaves, they'd have to assign it by 11am the day before. Of course, the devil will be in the details (contractual language) There is a grumbling/rumor that the UNA guys (I was one) will be frozen out of retro for the time they were aircraftless. That's a hard NO vote from me if the language states as such. It will also be interesting how they treat mil leave and retro. |
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